A stone handled Pesh Kabz

Ferguson · 15th August 2010, 10:37 PM

From India. Green stone hilt. Artzi had some listed as made late 19th or 20th century for sale to European travelers. Good quality monosteel blade and nice workmanship. I'd love to know what the hilt is made of. Something similar to jade perhaps? Scabbard is in poor condition, but with nice nickel silver chape. Any additional information or comments eagerly sought. Found this one at a gunshow yesterday in NC. First time I've seen a nice ethnographic piece locally.
Thanks!
Steve

Atlantia · 15th August 2010, 11:12 PM

Congrats on a great piece.
Unusual to see such different stone used for the grip scales and 'bolsters'.
Mostly the stone used is Jadeite or Nephrite. I believe that even within the 'term' Nephrite there is a wide variety of colours and types ranging from opaque semi single shade to near trasparent with milky inclusions. In other words both types on your fine dagger could be Nephrite (I think it probobly is).
As for date, I believe these (of the style you have) go right back into the 19thC.
The scabbard would be a relatively simple fix. Recover with thin leather or velvet. As the end mount is undecorated, a replacement upper band would be a fairly easy job to fashion. You could even make the brass pendant for the top of the hilt!
I have to say that this type of Pesh is one of my all time favourite dagger types. I think they are absolute perfection of both form and function.
Heres mine, 35cm total length.

A. G. Maisey · 16th August 2010, 12:21 AM

Ferguson, the stone in this hilt is probably serpentine.

Jade, both nephrite and jadeite, has a hardness of 6.5 to 7 on the mohs scale.

Serpentine has a hardness of 2.5 to 5.5.

Both nephrite and jadeite come in a wide variety of colours, for instance I have a khanjar with a black stone hilt that has been identified as jade (I am uncertain if jadeite or nephrite) by an gemologist. I have a ring in which the stone is a large piece of lilac jadeite.

You really need a gemologist to identify what the stone is, but a quick test that can save money when buying is to pull out your pocket knife and see if you can scratch the material. If you cannot scratch it, its a good indication that you have one of the jades in your hand.

Over the years I have owned a number of daggers of this type, all have had serpentine hilts.

Ferguson · 16th August 2010, 12:58 AM

I can scratch it. Probably serpentine.

Here's a pic of Bowenite Serpentine from wikipedia. Looks a lot like mine.
Thanks gentlemen!
Steve

Atlantia · 16th August 2010, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

I can scratch it. Probably serpentine.

Here's a pic of Bowenite Serpentine from wikipedia. Looks a lot like mine.
Thanks gentlemen!
Steve

Thats interesting, have you tried both stones with the scratch test?
I can barely mark mine with a new exacto blade.

Ferguson · 16th August 2010, 01:47 AM

Just tried the stone at the bolster. It can scratch too.

Steve

A. G. Maisey · 16th August 2010, 01:57 AM

Serpentine can go as high as 5.5 mohs, which is not all that far behind jade,but a sharp blade will still mark it.

A sharp blade will never mark jade, it just slides across the surface and leaves a deposit of steel, which looks like a very faint pencil mark.

Battara · 16th August 2010, 02:51 AM

Alan is right. Jade (jadite and nephrite) are very hard stones, therefore difficult to carve, and will not be scratched by steel.

Ferguson · 16th August 2010, 03:10 AM

Even though it's not jade, I'm extremely happy with the knife. Though I can scratch the stone (with a very sharp, very hard S30V blade) it is pretty hard. It has survived all these years with no breakage, and is just a gorgeous material. I was very fortunate. The seller was asking $100, and I got it for much less.

My Scottish genes are dancing with joy.

Steve

From Wikipedia (not always accurate) "Bowenite is an especially hard serpentine (5.5) of a light to dark apple green colour, often mottled with cloudy white patches and darker veining. It is the serpentine most frequently encountered in carving and jewellery."

From http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/serpentine.htm
"H. typically 2½ -4, but up to 5½ for some varieties, such as bowenite"

Atlantia · 17th August 2010, 07:42 PM

Its a beautiful fine quality knife.
And what an informative thread it's spawned!
Serpentine is still good

15th August 2010, 10:37 PM	#1
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	A stone handled Pesh Kabz From India. Green stone hilt. Artzi had some listed as made late 19th or 20th century for sale to European travelers. Good quality monosteel blade and nice workmanship. I'd love to know what the hilt is made of. Something similar to jade perhaps? Scabbard is in poor condition, but with nice nickel silver chape. Any additional information or comments eagerly sought. Found this one at a gunshow yesterday in NC. First time I've seen a nice ethnographic piece locally. Thanks! Steve

15th August 2010, 11:12 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Congrats on a great piece. Unusual to see such different stone used for the grip scales and 'bolsters'. Mostly the stone used is Jadeite or Nephrite. I believe that even within the 'term' Nephrite there is a wide variety of colours and types ranging from opaque semi single shade to near trasparent with milky inclusions. In other words both types on your fine dagger could be Nephrite (I think it probobly is). As for date, I believe these (of the style you have) go right back into the 19thC. The scabbard would be a relatively simple fix. Recover with thin leather or velvet. As the end mount is undecorated, a replacement upper band would be a fairly easy job to fashion. You could even make the brass pendant for the top of the hilt! I have to say that this type of Pesh is one of my all time favourite dagger types. I think they are absolute perfection of both form and function. Heres mine, 35cm total length. Last edited by Atlantia; 16th August 2010 at 12:02 AM.

16th August 2010, 03:10 AM	#9
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Even though it's not jade, I'm extremely happy with the knife. Though I can scratch the stone (with a very sharp, very hard S30V blade) it is pretty hard. It has survived all these years with no breakage, and is just a gorgeous material. I was very fortunate. The seller was asking $100, and I got it for much less. My Scottish genes are dancing with joy. Steve From Wikipedia (not always accurate) "Bowenite is an especially hard serpentine (5.5) of a light to dark apple green colour, often mottled with cloudy white patches and darker veining. It is the serpentine most frequently encountered in carving and jewellery." From http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/serpentine.htm "H. typically 2½ -4, but up to 5½ for some varieties, such as bowenite" Last edited by Ferguson; 16th August 2010 at 03:22 AM.

16th August 2010, 12:21 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Ferguson, the stone in this hilt is probably serpentine. Jade, both nephrite and jadeite, has a hardness of 6.5 to 7 on the mohs scale. Serpentine has a hardness of 2.5 to 5.5. Both nephrite and jadeite come in a wide variety of colours, for instance I have a khanjar with a black stone hilt that has been identified as jade (I am uncertain if jadeite or nephrite) by an gemologist. I have a ring in which the stone is a large piece of lilac jadeite. You really need a gemologist to identify what the stone is, but a quick test that can save money when buying is to pull out your pocket knife and see if you can scratch the material. If you cannot scratch it, its a good indication that you have one of the jades in your hand. Over the years I have owned a number of daggers of this type, all have had serpentine hilts.

16th August 2010, 12:58 AM	#4
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I can scratch it. Probably serpentine. Here's a pic of Bowenite Serpentine from wikipedia. Looks a lot like mine. Thanks gentlemen! Steve

16th August 2010, 01:47 AM	#6
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Just tried the stone at the bolster. It can scratch too. Steve

16th August 2010, 01:57 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Serpentine can go as high as 5.5 mohs, which is not all that far behind jade,but a sharp blade will still mark it. A sharp blade will never mark jade, it just slides across the surface and leaves a deposit of steel, which looks like a very faint pencil mark.

16th August 2010, 02:51 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Alan is right. Jade (jadite and nephrite) are very hard stones, therefore difficult to carve, and will not be scratched by steel.

17th August 2010, 07:42 PM	#10
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Its a beautiful fine quality knife. And what an informative thread it's spawned! Serpentine is still good