Indian? Decorated serrated sickle (worth a look)

[Atlantia]

Well, its an oddity.
Can anyone shed any light on this please?
It was described as an 'A 19thc antique indian arit / indo persian'
Well, have a look for yourselves.
Not sure what I'm gonna do with it, had toyed with using the handle on something else, but doesn;t seem likely now. Oh, and if its for something ghastly I'll be getting rid of it for sure!
Will try and clean it up and post some clearer pictures.

Just can't kick the idea that its s.e.a, and not Indian.

[colin henshaw]

Hi

It does look like its Indian, with the brass & copper - a rice sickle. I've seen some elephant goads (ankus) with a similar style to the handle. Nice form.

Regards

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi

It does look like its Indian, with the brass & copper - a rice sickle. I've seen some elephant goads (ankus) with a similar style to the handle. Nice form.

Regards

Hi Colin,
I've seen plenty of rice sickles, but this seems way to 'fancy' and frail......
well, plenty's an exageration, but I've seen some, and they've all been rather functional and 'businesslike', can't remember any being serrated either.....
Thanks for helping bud, have a look at a side-on of the handle:

[Rick]

Ceremonial in nature ?
Used by a holy man or like in the paddy ?
Blessing the crop, first cut of harvest; stuff like that ?

Not so sure about SEA

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Rick

Ceremonial in nature ?
Used by a holy man or like in the paddy ?
Blessing the crop, first cut of harvest; stuff like that ?

Not so sure about SEA

Could well be.
The fine teeth make me wonder if it was for use 'at arms reach' like a mistletoe sickle?

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi

It does look like its Indian, with the brass & copper - a rice sickle. I've seen some elephant goads (ankus) with a similar style to the handle. Nice form.

Regards

Hey Colin,

Just shown it to a friend of mine from the Philipines, whose family own a rice farm and she says she thinks its a rice sickle.


Dissapointingly mundane.
But as you say, a nice form.....

Cheers
Gene

[Robert]

Could this possibly be from Tibet? If it is I might have an idea of what it could be.

Robert

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Could this possibly be from Tibet? If it is I might have an idea of what it could be.

Robert

Ello Matey!
I was just about to email you a thank you for the e-card!
Only found it yesterday amongst the ba-zillion spam messages on AOL.
Very kind and really appreciated by both of us

Whats your idea?

Gene

[Robert]

Hello Gene,
At one time I saw a couple of picture of a knife like this being used by a Tibetan Monk in one of their ceremonies. The pictures did not show the hilt but the blade was curved and looked to be about 8 to 10 inches in length. I remember that the blade was described as being very sharp and having a serrated edge. I've been digging around in this rust bucket that I call a brain an haven't as yet remembered where I saw the pictures.
I'm happy to hear you received the e-card and you are more than welcome.

Robert

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Gene,
At one time I saw a couple of picture of a knife like this being used by a Tibetan Monk in one of their ceremonies. The pictures did not show the hilt but the blade was curved and looked to be about 8 to 10 inches in length. I remember that the blade was described as being very sharp and having a serrated edge. I've been digging around in this rust bucket that I call a brain an haven't as yet remembered where I saw the pictures.
I'm happy to hear you received the e-card and you are more than welcome.

Robert

Hi Robert,
Thats interesting.
According to the never wrong Wiki, reaping sickles are usually serrated (but I've never seen one with fine teeth like this).
Here are some more pictures:

[Montino Bourbon]

The serrations are functional. It's definitely a reaper's tool, although it may be a ceremonial one.

[A. G. Maisey]

I don't know what it is, but a few years back I had a piece of the same form as this, but without the serrated blade edge.

Quality of construction was quite fine, way above tool quality. The quality of construction of this piece being discussed here also appears to be above tool quality.

[Tim Simmons]

I was offered one of these eagerly proffered as a "Skull Scrapper" It is a fancy harvesting knife and not just rice.

[Atlantia]

Hi Gentlemen, thank you all for the continued input.
TIM,
When you say 'one of these', do you mean exactly the same?
What culture did they atttribute it too, and did 'skull scraping come at a premium LOL>?

Best Gene

[Tim Simmons]

Not this one. This is a nice example. It was offered with great relish in a swap. To me it looks like the work seen on items from the Nepal and other mountian, foothill areas. I have seem nepalese sickles held suspendid in a wooden block on a fabric baldric. You could probably find examples on the net.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Not this one. This is a nice example. It was offered with great relish in a swap. To me it looks like the work seen on items from the Nepal and other mountian, foothill areas. I have seem nepalese sickles held suspendid in a wooden block on a fabric baldric. You could probably find examples on the net.

Hmmm, well the plot has certainly 'thickened' but I cant seem to locate any that are quite the same.
I've pretty much exhausted google images I think LOL

[Tim Simmons]

First page on googling "Nepalese antique sickle"-

http://www.bluelotusgallery.com/antiques

I have see much better examples for sale on other sites.

[Emanuel]

Hello,

On first impression I would say Nepal as well, a hansiya ("hanshee" - what lambendh khukri used to be mistakenly called).
The handle brings to mind Afghan work on choora and lohar. Perhaps a border piece

The construction on this piece is very odd. The blade's orientation seems to be 90 degrees off and its connection to the hilt is even stranger. The hilt has a strip running along its length as if to emphasize it is made of two scales, and yet there is a nut on the but as if the tang is screwed all the way through. Would be nice to see this taken apart.
Given that only the top part of the hilt is decorated with brass, and the blade is so oddly attached on the underside, it seems to me that it was carried or showed off in this manner, not actually held and used...speculation.

Here's a pic of a hansiya, note the finely serrated edge.

All the best,
Emanuel

[Emanuel]

Here's another hansiya, this time it looks very similar to the one discussed, although the handle is hidden.

[KuKulzA28]

I don't know too much about sickles, but in my limited experience on farms and in the fields... harvesting sickles tend to have serrations for tearing through vegetation, and tend to have a blade offset from the handle and horizontal, making it easy to cut low to the ground with a flick of the wrist.

This has both of those features, but like you all said - it's very high quality looking...

Please don't be disappointed that it's a glorified working tool. Remember it meant something real important to someone, and it is definitely an important part of these people's history. Agriculture must have been important and support this society. No food support-base to the society, and what weapons would you be collecting? They'd all be starving and dying - not much weapons manufacture if you're dying. In my opinion, it's a nice thing to have if you have the space.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

First page on googling "Nepalese antique sickle"-

http://www.bluelotusgallery.com/antiques

I have see much better examples for sale on other sites.

LOL, I didn't mean I couldn't find any sickles, just not one like this one. ITs the weird handle thats throwing me...


Right, back now. Sorry mate.

Yeah, I could find nepalese Sickles, but they 'tend' to look like rice sickles, and be fairly conventional, have you seen any with the same weird handle mine's got?

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Here's another hansiya, this time it looks very similar to the one discussed, although the handle is hidden.

Hi Emanuel,

Thats interesting, it does look like it might have the 'bird neck' that mine has.........

Here are some more pictures of the handle on mine.
You are right, the handle is pinned at 90degrees to the blade, as indicated by the added arrows in the picture.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

I don't know too much about sickles, but in my limited experience on farms and in the fields... harvesting sickles tend to have serrations for tearing through vegetation, and tend to have a blade offset from the handle and horizontal, making it easy to cut low to the ground with a flick of the wrist.

This has both of those features, but like you all said - it's very high quality looking...

Please don't be disappointed that it's a glorified working tool. Remember it meant something real important to someone, and it is definitely an important part of these people's history. Agriculture must have been important and support this society. No food support-base to the society, and what weapons would you be collecting? They'd all be starving and dying - not much weapons manufacture if you're dying. In my opinion, it's a nice thing to have if you have the space.

Hi KukulzA28,

Thanks, its an interesting thing for sure. I just hate not knowing all the 'wheres and whens' lol

[Atlantia]

Bump to see if anyone has any further thoughts

[Billman]

Yes this is an an Indian sickle - modern ones are sometimes found in the UK, presumably exported as samples along with cheap Indian made billhooks etc..

Modern ones are often made with a thin blade with a serrated edge (c.f. a wide hacksaw blade) rivetted to a mild steel spine (c.f. the rivetted English scythe blade, as compared to the original 100% forged ones).

Yours appears very ornate, but still a working tool, rather than ceremonial... Indian women often used ornate tools. The fine serrations indicate it is probably for rice, gather in the handful and sliced off to avoid losing the grains during harvest... European and Moroccon sickles have coarser serrations, but achieve the same effect...

They can be found listed on many Indain tool manufacturers' web pages, e.g. http://www.esuppliersindia.com/products/sickles.html or http://www.indiamart.com/ganpatimeta.../products.html

Similar (same??) tool called a royal sickle on http://defenceforumindia.com/showthr...?t=7479&page=2

[VANDOO]

FUNNY THIS CAME UP NOW I HAVE A FEW PICTURES WAITING.
1. PHILIPPINE IFUAGO, LUZON , RICE SICKLE 10IN. LONG, FIGURAL HORN HANDLE
2. RICE SICKLE AND HOLDER, NEPAL
3. RICE HARVESTING SICKLE, VIETNAM, NOTE THE LONG PROTRUSION IT REMINDS ME OF THE PHILIPPINE PIRAS WITH LONG PROTRUSIONS ON THE HANDLE.

[Billman]

Ref the Vietnamese rice sickle - these are often sold on eBay.fr as Cambodian - but I guess a similar shape is found throughout the region...

Last time I looked there were about 20 from the same seller - all reasonably priced - search for 'faucille à riz'

The Nepalese sickle also often turns up - probably brought home as a tourist souvenir. What I really want is to find some Nepalese billhooks - larger heavier tools of a similar shape, but for wood, not rice (and no I don't want a khukuri)

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

FUNNY THIS CAME UP NOW I HAVE A FEW PICTURES WAITING.
1. PHILIPPINE IFUAGO, LUZON , RICE SICKLE 10IN. LONG, FIGURAL HORN HANDLE
2. RICE SICKLE AND HOLDER, NEPAL
3. RICE HARVESTING SICKLE, VIETNAM, NOTE THE LONG PROTRUSION IT REMINDS ME OF THE PHILIPPINE PIRAS WITH LONG PROTRUSIONS ON THE HANDLE.

Hello Barry,

the Ifuago one is very very similar with indonesian rice knifes (called ani ani). Here two examples, one from Madura, the other one is Dayak.

Regards,

Detlef

[Jenny Ida]

I have a similar sickle to Vandoo's Luzon one that I picked up off a lady who had been a school teacher in various SEA countries before wwII. Interestingly the hooked dragonny pommel is gone from mine, and I've read that this is the ritually important part, swapped from blade to blade perhaps for generations (and thus possibly not gifted to the curious foriegn school teacher?). It has small serations on the blade as does my plain lightweight Japanese sickle, and is cetainly a working tool, with the connection of blade and handle showing rapairs and adjustments with nails and pitch. I have another heavy Indian sickle with copper inlays in the bolster/shaft area between handle and blade, a bit fancier that we'd associate with farm tools in N America. Apparently rice harvesting is traditionally an event of major ritual importance in Asia.