Bali keris?

Ascalon · 20th July 2009, 08:30 PM

Bought this keris recently, but what is it exactly?
The hilt is painted.
Total length: 57cm
Regards
Emmanuel

Rick · 20th July 2009, 09:39 PM

I love the old painted hilts .

Interesting 'divot' in the sorsoran .
Not sure about the mendak/selut being Bali ..

Nice !

asomotif · 20th July 2009, 10:57 PM

Nice hilt.

The selut is something bugis / malay. Remove it and the hilt will look even better.
Maybe a nice simple uwer can be placed under the ukiran, but I think even without an uwer the hilt will look very nice.

As for te blade. lots of lu(c)ks. A bit above my standard.

A. G. Maisey · 20th July 2009, 11:47 PM

This is a peculiar keris.

The hilt does appear to originate from Bali, but it is not a traditional style nor motif.

The blade does not have the overall form of a Bali keris, as there are too many waves, the blade angle and proportions do not really fit Bali, the pamor does not look quite right, the garap does not look quite right --- without the handle I might be inclined to think Lombok, but together with the handle I feel that if I had it in my hand I'd be thinking current era Madura.

It is quite possible that the hilt could be a Madura creation as well.

The hilt ring/pendongkok/mendak is a Bugis (generic) form.

Is there a scabbard?

From what I can see in the photo my impression is that I am looking at a dealer's marriage of fairly recent pieces.

Sorry.

Marcokeris · 21st July 2009, 07:01 AM

is possible to see the hit by profile and by back?
Thanks

Ascalon · 21st July 2009, 12:56 PM

Thanks
I bought it on a market very cheaply so I am not disappointed.
It remains pleasant to look.
I'm going to add pictures.
Regards
Emmanuel

Marcokeris · 22nd July 2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

is possible to see the hit by profile and by back?
Thanks

not so difference with this Bali hit (...of course only about the motif)

A. G. Maisey · 22nd July 2009, 01:43 PM

Yes Marco, quite similar, but I feel that the key word here is "traditional", by which I mean a motif predating the current era.

Marcokeris · 22nd July 2009, 04:37 PM

For example on pag.30 of Jensen's work krisdisk (Bali section) there is a "traditional" hit with the same haircut....

ganjawulung · 31st July 2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascalon

Bought this keris recently, but what is it exactly?
The hilt is painted.
Total length: 57cm
Regards
Emmanuel

The form of luks, IMO is well executed. Excellent. I like the form of luks of this keris -- many luks but not looks clumsy... But not the greneng part. From the form of the gandhik -- sirah cecak with kind of 'kruwingan' (a bit hollow) and also the form of sekar kacang part -- IMO this is not Maduran, but Balinese style.

In javanese, keris with many luks (more than 13 luks) is called as "kalawija" -- unordinary but still within pakem. Please compare with this Mataram style "kalawija" with 29 luks (Emmanuel's keris is with 27 luks) with dhapur of "Kalabendu"... Overall length of the blade is 36 cm without peksi, or 41 cm with peksi.

I apologize to you all to deal with this "show and tell" game. This is IMO one of the best way to make visually comparison in appreciating this keris world, if we don't have the real keris in our hand. Or is it useless?

Pls see Erik's thread too on his balinese 'kalawija'
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8855
and this old thread on 'kalawija'
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=kalawija

GANJAWULUNG

Gustav · 31st July 2009, 09:04 AM

Ganjawulung,

The immense knowledge of people like you is the great and most welcome possibility for me to learn about keris and history. Thank you very much.

Rick · 31st July 2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

I apologize to you all to deal with this "show and tell" game. This is IMO one of the best way to make visually comparison in appreciating this keris world, if we don't have the real keris in our hand. Or is it useless? GANJAWULUNG

It would seem to me that this is really the only way to go about it in our cyber-world .

A picture, a thousand words, and all that ........

David · 31st July 2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Marco, quite similar, but I feel that the key word here is "traditional", by which I mean a motif predating the current era.

Can you define "current era" Alan? When would you say it begins?

A. G. Maisey · 1st August 2009, 02:22 AM

Yes, good question David.

This is term that I have taken to using, its not one that is is in general widespread usage. To be honest, I am torn between two, or perhaps three or even four points of demarcation.

One point would be from around the mid-1970's, when the keris in Jawa began its revival.

A second point would be after the Japanese occupation of what is now Indonesia , ceased.

A third point would be from the beginning of the 20th century.

The fourth, and perhaps most logical point would be from approximately 1940, when the Second World War caused the disappearance of the old way of life in South East Asia.

I still haven't firmed up on exactly what I think "current era" should mean, but taking the all inclusive view, it must be at least after the beginning of the 20th century.

Indonesians themselves have taken to a fifth point of demarcation, which is the period following the declaration of Indonesian independence:- 17th August 1945.

20th July 2009, 08:30 PM	#1
Ascalon Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: France Posts: 45	Bali keris? Bought this keris recently, but what is it exactly? The hilt is painted. Total length: 57cm Regards Emmanuel

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20th July 2009, 09:39 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I love the old painted hilts . Interesting 'divot' in the sorsoran . Not sure about the mendak/selut being Bali .. Nice !

20th July 2009, 10:57 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Nice hilt. The selut is something bugis / malay. Remove it and the hilt will look even better. Maybe a nice simple uwer can be placed under the ukiran, but I think even without an uwer the hilt will look very nice. As for te blade. lots of lu(c)ks. A bit above my standard.

20th July 2009, 11:47 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	This is a peculiar keris. The hilt does appear to originate from Bali, but it is not a traditional style nor motif. The blade does not have the overall form of a Bali keris, as there are too many waves, the blade angle and proportions do not really fit Bali, the pamor does not look quite right, the garap does not look quite right --- without the handle I might be inclined to think Lombok, but together with the handle I feel that if I had it in my hand I'd be thinking current era Madura. It is quite possible that the hilt could be a Madura creation as well. The hilt ring/pendongkok/mendak is a Bugis (generic) form. Is there a scabbard? From what I can see in the photo my impression is that I am looking at a dealer's marriage of fairly recent pieces. Sorry.

21st July 2009, 07:01 AM	#5
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	is possible to see the hit by profile and by back? Thanks

21st July 2009, 12:56 PM	#6
Ascalon Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: France Posts: 45	Thanks I bought it on a market very cheaply so I am not disappointed. It remains pleasant to look. I'm going to add pictures. Regards Emmanuel

22nd July 2009, 01:43 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes Marco, quite similar, but I feel that the key word here is "traditional", by which I mean a motif predating the current era.

22nd July 2009, 04:37 PM	#9
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	For example on pag.30 of Jensen's work krisdisk (Bali section) there is a "traditional" hit with the same haircut....

31st July 2009, 09:04 AM	#11
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Ganjawulung, The immense knowledge of people like you is the great and most welcome possibility for me to learn about keris and history. Thank you very much.

1st August 2009, 02:22 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes, good question David. This is term that I have taken to using, its not one that is is in general widespread usage. To be honest, I am torn between two, or perhaps three or even four points of demarcation. One point would be from around the mid-1970's, when the keris in Jawa began its revival. A second point would be after the Japanese occupation of what is now Indonesia , ceased. A third point would be from the beginning of the 20th century. The fourth, and perhaps most logical point would be from approximately 1940, when the Second World War caused the disappearance of the old way of life in South East Asia. I still haven't firmed up on exactly what I think "current era" should mean, but taking the all inclusive view, it must be at least after the beginning of the 20th century. Indonesians themselves have taken to a fifth point of demarcation, which is the period following the declaration of Indonesian independence:- 17th August 1945.