Unusual pamor

[adamb]

Hi All, any insight into this keris much appreciated.

Obviously Malay dress (sheath not that old, I think); old ivory Jawa demam hilt (inset eyes missing). Old Malay hilt cup.

Blade is slender and dainty and looks to me like the Javanese pamor lawe saukel; overall seems like a Javanese product. Blade is old, but has been well-fitted to the Malay-type sheath.

I would be grateful if anyone is willing to share their opinion on this one.

Cheers

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Adam, one of the Lawe Setukel variations, most likely East Jawa/Madura.

[Gustav]

Sheath is From Terengganu, first half of 20th cent, likely second quarter.
Hilt - Minangkabau, Sumatra.
Pedongkok - likely Terengganu.

[David]

Nice keris. Not uncommon to find Madurese or Javanese keris in Malay dress.
I think the ivory Jawa Demam has some age, bit feel that the colour has been augmented to give it an even older appearance.

[Rick]

Does this keris have an iron core?

[David]

Originally Posted by Rick

Does this keris have an iron core?

Good question. Is this not the core revealed here though?

[Rick]

I'm just not sure David. The metal is so bright.

[A. G. Maisey]

That does appear to be separation of the pamor layer from the steel core, it would surprise me if this keris did not have a core, it appears to have some age, and this type of pamor is not usually found in a keris made purely for decorative purposes.

However, to be certain that it does have a core we would need to examine both sides at the same time, looking at both edges simultaneously so that we could see the same separation, or if not the actual separation, the line of demarcation between core & pamor layer, at the same place on the blade, on both sides of the blade.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Sheath is From Terengganu, first half of 20th cent, likely second quarter.

Hello Gustav,

May I ask you why you think or be certain about the age of the Terengganu scabbard? In my humble opinion it could be older when it was refurbished at one point in its history.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Hello Adam,

Can we see a picture how the blade fits in the scabbard?

Regards,
Detlef

[adamb]

Originally Posted by Rick

Does this keris have an iron core?

Yes, this is something I had wondered about even from the seller's photographs, as the pamor seemed to go right to the edges of the blade around the full periphery.

Now that I have the blade to hand I'm none the wiser; I can't see a clear separation of core from pamor on either face or anywhere along the margins.

These additional photos might help to show that.

I did think from the seller's images that this might be a "core-less" decorative blade, which I had read about before, in which case the apparent age of the blade (even in seller's images, the patina was evident) intrigued me.

[adamb]

Originally Posted by David

Nice keris. Not uncommon to find Madurese or Javanese keris in Malay dress.
I think the ivory Jawa Demam has some age, bit feel that the colour has been augmented to give it an even older appearance.

Thanks David, are there any tell-tale clues RE artificial colouring of ivory that I should look for? (Apologies if there are already extensive threads dedicated to this topic - as with the Phantom, I came in late).

[adamb]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Adam,

Can we see a picture how the blade fits in the scabbard?

Regards,
Detlef

G'day Detlef; here you go

[adamb]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Adam, one of the Lawe Setukel variations, most likely East Jawa/Madura.

Thank you Alan; I'm told blithely but rather authoritatively by the internet that this is a rare and sought-after pamor type; is that right?

cheers
A

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Gustav,

May I ask you why you think or be certain about the age of the Terengganu scabbard? In my humble opinion it could be older when it was refurbished at one point in its history.

Regards,
Detlef

Detlef, I think so because of the form of Sampir. 19th cent. Terengganu Sampir is quite similar to Riau-Johore Sampir, from which it likely originates. During the first part of 20th cent. the Terengganu form becomes "boxier".