Superimposed load Torador query

adrian · 6th January 2021, 09:16 AM

Hi I am curious as to what the small decorative panels covering the stock of this Torador are made of. About the only thing I can think of is dyed horn, I suspect it is not dyed ivory, but I have not seen this before.
Any help much appreciated.

kai · 6th January 2021, 10:11 AM

Hello Adrian,

Bone, stag, or ivory are the most likely contenders.

It might well be ivory - search for panels exhibiting Schreger lines!

We need better (sharp) close-ups, especially of imperfect/damaged panels.

Regards,
Kai

Kubur · 6th January 2021, 12:37 PM

Hi

IVORY for sure
You are rich now!
Could you post some photos of the whole gun?
And details of the pans, trigger or triggers and the muzzle?

Thanks

Battara · 6th January 2021, 07:52 PM

Yes please post pics of the whole thing before anyone else posts replies.

adrian · 6th January 2021, 10:16 PM

More close ups etc below. There is just the single trigger. It has one serpentine and the other is missing, the slot it operated from is evident.

It is in a large collection of antique Ethnographic arms, many of which are high quality, but the barrel etc on this gun is pretty ordinary.

Are you sure it is Ivory?

ariel · 7th January 2021, 04:40 AM

It has an almost “ plastic” unifortmity.
I would do a hot needle test just to be sure.
The upper left corner in the second pic from the bottom seems to show some burnt areas.

adrian · 7th January 2021, 05:29 AM

I've just tried a red hot wire, it doesn't melt the material on the gun, just leaves a tiny char dot. I applied the same wire to hard plastic (a tape measure case) & it melted straight in & raised smoked.

So the gun's material is not plastic.....

adrian · 7th January 2021, 06:36 AM

oops double post

Tim Simmons · 7th January 2021, 10:05 AM

It looks to be bone.

Kubur · 7th January 2021, 11:01 AM

Ok I have to explain why I think it's ivory.

All the Indian power flasks made that way, are made of ivory;

but most of them are decorative objects, not even with a hole to pour the powder.

Many Indian toradors made of mother-of-pearl are late 19th or early 20th and they are just decorative.

It's the reason why I think that this torador is made of ivory but just as a decorative item from 1900.

Sometimes they use old barrels, so I was intrigued to see more of this gun...

mahratt · 7th January 2021, 08:14 PM

This is certainly not ivory. But I don't think this is any kind of plastic. In my opinion, these are small plates of bone from a camel's leg. And yes, most likely the decor was made in the early 20th century.

asomotif · 7th January 2021, 11:44 PM

The material reminds me of a mirror frame we had from Morocco inlaid with.. camel bone.
No indications of ivory at all imho.
No schreger lines and the yellow colour would indicate a long storage in the dark in case of ivory, but even than ivory does not tend to become this yellow almost orange.

I go for the camel bone.

adrian · 7th January 2021, 11:45 PM

Thank you everyone, I think camel bone is the most likely from the discussions so far. I googled 'dyed stabilised camel bone' and that does look the same on some images.

ariel · 8th January 2021, 05:18 AM

Not ivory for sure. If it passed the hot wire test, it is going to be bone: camel, buffalo ( not cow, we are talking about India:-), horse. Even elephant or hippo.

I am now reading “Career of evil” by Robert Galbraith ( in reality J. K. Rowling of the Harry Potter fame), a third installment in a marvelous series. It starts with an amputated human leg. That will also do, in a macabre way.

Well, did it give you willies? :-)))

6th January 2021, 09:16 AM	#1
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	Superimposed load Torador query Hi I am curious as to what the small decorative panels covering the stock of this Torador are made of. About the only thing I can think of is dyed horn, I suspect it is not dyed ivory, but I have not seen this before. Any help much appreciated. Attached Images

6th January 2021, 10:16 PM	#5
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	More close ups etc below. There is just the single trigger. It has one serpentine and the other is missing, the slot it operated from is evident. It is in a large collection of antique Ethnographic arms, many of which are high quality, but the barrel etc on this gun is pretty ordinary. Are you sure it is Ivory? Attached Images

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6th January 2021, 10:11 AM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Adrian, Bone, stag, or ivory are the most likely contenders. It might well be ivory - search for panels exhibiting Schreger lines! We need better (sharp) close-ups, especially of imperfect/damaged panels. Regards, Kai

6th January 2021, 12:37 PM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi IVORY for sure You are rich now! Could you post some photos of the whole gun? And details of the pans, trigger or triggers and the muzzle? Thanks

6th January 2021, 07:52 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Yes please post pics of the whole thing before anyone else posts replies.

7th January 2021, 04:40 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It has an almost “ plastic” unifortmity. I would do a hot needle test just to be sure. The upper left corner in the second pic from the bottom seems to show some burnt areas.

7th January 2021, 05:29 AM	#7
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	I've just tried a red hot wire, it doesn't melt the material on the gun, just leaves a tiny char dot. I applied the same wire to hard plastic (a tape measure case) & it melted straight in & raised smoked. So the gun's material is not plastic.....

7th January 2021, 06:36 AM	#8
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	oops double post

7th January 2021, 10:05 AM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It looks to be bone.

7th January 2021, 11:01 AM	#10
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Ok I have to explain why I think it's ivory. All the Indian power flasks made that way, are made of ivory; but most of them are decorative objects, not even with a hole to pour the powder. Many Indian toradors made of mother-of-pearl are late 19th or early 20th and they are just decorative. It's the reason why I think that this torador is made of ivory but just as a decorative item from 1900. Sometimes they use old barrels, so I was intrigued to see more of this gun...

7th January 2021, 08:14 PM	#11
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	This is certainly not ivory. But I don't think this is any kind of plastic. In my opinion, these are small plates of bone from a camel's leg. And yes, most likely the decor was made in the early 20th century.

7th January 2021, 11:44 PM	#12
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	The material reminds me of a mirror frame we had from Morocco inlaid with.. camel bone. No indications of ivory at all imho. No schreger lines and the yellow colour would indicate a long storage in the dark in case of ivory, but even than ivory does not tend to become this yellow almost orange. I go for the camel bone.

7th January 2021, 11:45 PM	#13
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	Thank you everyone, I think camel bone is the most likely from the discussions so far. I googled 'dyed stabilised camel bone' and that does look the same on some images.

8th January 2021, 05:18 AM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Not ivory for sure. If it passed the hot wire test, it is going to be bone: camel, buffalo ( not cow, we are talking about India:-), horse. Even elephant or hippo. I am now reading “Career of evil” by Robert Galbraith ( in reality J. K. Rowling of the Harry Potter fame), a third installment in a marvelous series. It starts with an amputated human leg. That will also do, in a macabre way. Well, did it give you willies? :-)))