African Tribal Gear: Tribe? Circa? Plz Help Ident...

Kyrottimus · 21st May 2006, 02:19 AM

Here, here are some pictures. I've been told by other sources that the gear is Zulua Assegai, and that the Knobkerrie is definate Zulu. As for the shield, it is supposedly Zulu, but is most likely ceremonial instead of a war shield.

Can anyone help with a more specific identification and what approximate date they were made?

Thanks.

--Kyro

katana · 21st May 2006, 12:42 PM

Hi Kyrottimus,
welcome to the forum.

Identify spears / knobkerries to specific tribes is very difficult.

Generally speaking spears with a tang (a metal 'tail' of the spearhead which is fitted to the shaft) tend to be from the Southern areas of Africa. Socketed spearheads tend to come from more northerly parts of Africa, …….but this is a rough guide only. Your spear has a tang and I think, (from the photo) wire wrapped.

It could be Zulu, but, could easily be a number of other Tribes. It could be genuine Zulu but, a tourist piece, as could the knobkerrie be attributed to several tribes or be a tourist piece.
There are no 'hard and fast' rules about age either. Generally most estimates of age are 'guesstimates', using clues such as provenance, condition, patina, quality of materials etc.

You could post better pics of the weapons, but I suspect that more knowledgeable members may have little to add.

VANDOO · 22nd May 2006, 03:30 AM

THE THREE ITEMS ARE PROBABLY ZULU THE SHIELD CERTIANLY IS. THE ZULU SPEARS ARE SHORT AND USUALLY HAVE A BIGGER BUTT END TO THE SHAFT TO FACILITATE THRUSTING AND RETERIVAL OF THE SPEAR. I COULDN'T SEE THE END OF YOUR SPEAR OR TELL WHAT WAS WRAPED AROUND THE FORTE BEHIND THE BLADE. AS POINTED OUT FANCY WIRE WORK WAS OFTEN USED ON ZULU SPEARS DURING A CERTIAN PERIOD. THERE IS A FAIRLY WIDE RANGE IN ZULU GEAR AS THERE WERE SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS AND TRIBAL GROUPS INVOLVED SUCH AS THOSE WHO WERE THE ONES WHO STARTED THE ZULU EMPIRE,THOSE WHO JOINED AND THOSE WHO WERE CONQURED. THERE WERE ALSO DIFFERENT RANKS FOR WARRIORS TO OBTAIN AND THE DIFFERENT ACCOUNTERMENTS THEY WERE ALLOWED AS THEY ADVANCED.

THE EARLIER SHIELDS WERE LARGER PERHAPS TWO TO A COW HIDE LATER ONES MIGHT BE 4 TO ONE COW HIDE. THE SIZE SEEMED TO DECREASE AS THE EMPIRE GREW PROBABLY DUE TO THE NUMBER OF WARRIORS AND THE VALUE OF COWS. JUDGEING FROM WHAT I CAN SEE OF YOUR EXAMPLE IT WOULD BE ONE OF THE 4 TO ONE SIZE AND DUE TO THE CONDITION AND SIZE WELL AFTER THE TIME OF SHAKA AND THE ZULU WARS. DUE TO THE WAY IT IS CUT AND FOLDED ON THE BACK IT LOOKS TO HAVE BEEN MADE IN THE OLD TRADITIONAL WAY. IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO GIVE A DATE EVEN IF I HAD IT ON HAND SO I WON'T GUESS.

THE KNOBKERRY IS ALSO IMPOSIBLE FOR ME TO TELL MUCH ABOUT, IT IS THE PROPER FORM FOR THOSE USED BY ZULU TRIBES AND IF IT HAS A GOOD PATINA MAY BE OLDER THAN THE SHIELD. IF THE THREE ITEMS CAME TOGETHER AS A SET AND THE SPEAR BUTT AND WIRE WRAP ARE PRESENT I WOULD SAY CLASSIFY THEM AS ZULU AND PERHAPS FROM THE SAME TIME. THERE ARE THOSE WITH MUCH MORE KNOWLEGE ON ZULU ITEMS AND THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU MUCH BETTER INFORMATION. GOOD LUCK

21st May 2006, 02:19 AM	#1
Kyrottimus Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1	African Tribal Gear: Tribe? Circa? Plz Help Ident... Here, here are some pictures. I've been told by other sources that the gear is Zulua Assegai, and that the Knobkerrie is definate Zulu. As for the shield, it is supposedly Zulu, but is most likely ceremonial instead of a war shield. Can anyone help with a more specific identification and what approximate date they were made? Thanks. --Kyro

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21st May 2006, 12:42 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Kyrottimus, welcome to the forum. Identify spears / knobkerries to specific tribes is very difficult. Generally speaking spears with a tang (a metal 'tail' of the spearhead which is fitted to the shaft) tend to be from the Southern areas of Africa. Socketed spearheads tend to come from more northerly parts of Africa, …….but this is a rough guide only. Your spear has a tang and I think, (from the photo) wire wrapped. It could be Zulu, but, could easily be a number of other Tribes. It could be genuine Zulu but, a tourist piece, as could the knobkerrie be attributed to several tribes or be a tourist piece. There are no 'hard and fast' rules about age either. Generally most estimates of age are 'guesstimates', using clues such as provenance, condition, patina, quality of materials etc. You could post better pics of the weapons, but I suspect that more knowledgeable members may have little to add.

22nd May 2006, 03:30 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE THREE ITEMS ARE PROBABLY ZULU THE SHIELD CERTIANLY IS. THE ZULU SPEARS ARE SHORT AND USUALLY HAVE A BIGGER BUTT END TO THE SHAFT TO FACILITATE THRUSTING AND RETERIVAL OF THE SPEAR. I COULDN'T SEE THE END OF YOUR SPEAR OR TELL WHAT WAS WRAPED AROUND THE FORTE BEHIND THE BLADE. AS POINTED OUT FANCY WIRE WORK WAS OFTEN USED ON ZULU SPEARS DURING A CERTIAN PERIOD. THERE IS A FAIRLY WIDE RANGE IN ZULU GEAR AS THERE WERE SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS AND TRIBAL GROUPS INVOLVED SUCH AS THOSE WHO WERE THE ONES WHO STARTED THE ZULU EMPIRE,THOSE WHO JOINED AND THOSE WHO WERE CONQURED. THERE WERE ALSO DIFFERENT RANKS FOR WARRIORS TO OBTAIN AND THE DIFFERENT ACCOUNTERMENTS THEY WERE ALLOWED AS THEY ADVANCED. THE EARLIER SHIELDS WERE LARGER PERHAPS TWO TO A COW HIDE LATER ONES MIGHT BE 4 TO ONE COW HIDE. THE SIZE SEEMED TO DECREASE AS THE EMPIRE GREW PROBABLY DUE TO THE NUMBER OF WARRIORS AND THE VALUE OF COWS. JUDGEING FROM WHAT I CAN SEE OF YOUR EXAMPLE IT WOULD BE ONE OF THE 4 TO ONE SIZE AND DUE TO THE CONDITION AND SIZE WELL AFTER THE TIME OF SHAKA AND THE ZULU WARS. DUE TO THE WAY IT IS CUT AND FOLDED ON THE BACK IT LOOKS TO HAVE BEEN MADE IN THE OLD TRADITIONAL WAY. IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO GIVE A DATE EVEN IF I HAD IT ON HAND SO I WON'T GUESS. THE KNOBKERRY IS ALSO IMPOSIBLE FOR ME TO TELL MUCH ABOUT, IT IS THE PROPER FORM FOR THOSE USED BY ZULU TRIBES AND IF IT HAS A GOOD PATINA MAY BE OLDER THAN THE SHIELD. IF THE THREE ITEMS CAME TOGETHER AS A SET AND THE SPEAR BUTT AND WIRE WRAP ARE PRESENT I WOULD SAY CLASSIFY THEM AS ZULU AND PERHAPS FROM THE SAME TIME. THERE ARE THOSE WITH MUCH MORE KNOWLEGE ON ZULU ITEMS AND THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU MUCH BETTER INFORMATION. GOOD LUCK