7th August 2017, 08:35 AM | #121 | |
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7th August 2017, 01:47 PM | #122 | |
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your hilt could show Bima, in many books it's described as this and like Marco said could originate from East Java. Here my example, sadly with carved away crown/bun. Regards, Detlef |
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7th August 2017, 02:47 PM | #123 |
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Some Jawa Deman handles, variations in style, material and origin. But the most coming from Sumatra. Since they are in display now I've thought to share some pictures.
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7th August 2017, 03:11 PM | #124 | |
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very nice collection and presentation! Here is my unknown silver hilt, very detailed and made of a massive piece of silver, could be a kind of Cocetan. Maybe someone knows more. No better pics, sorry. Best wishes, Roland Last edited by Roland_M; 7th August 2017 at 03:21 PM. |
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7th August 2017, 03:27 PM | #125 |
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Here the other Sumatra display, need to get cleaned again.
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7th August 2017, 03:36 PM | #126 | ||
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Regards, Detlef |
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8th August 2017, 02:50 AM | #127 | |||
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Thank you for your help. There is a hilt that you posted earlier that looks similar with mine. In reply 58, picture number 4. Maybe it comes from same region. Quote:
Thank you for your explanation. Yes, both of the hilts look similar. I have another hilts that maybe from East Java, too. Quite unique to me, one of the hand holds a mask/ head. The other hand holds a blade. I am just focusing at Javanese tosan aji right now, so I don't know about other region's hilt. But your collection is very nice Quote:
I am curious about what figural in your hilt. Is that hilt ressemble a dragon? One of my Madura hilt collection for patrem (maybe Donoriko?). Also a hilt from West Java style. A friend of mine told me it is called Ganesha. Best regards, Joe |
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8th August 2017, 07:55 AM | #128 | |
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Yes I think so. It seems to be the birth of a dragon. The dragons tail is a 13 lok-blade (at least I think so) with a beautiful Ganesha-figure, no elephant, an Indian Ganesha with four arms. The hilt was formed from a massive piece of silver. Best wishes, Roland |
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8th August 2017, 10:37 AM | #129 |
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I believe investigation will show that the hilt is fabricated from quite light sheet silver, then chased and filled with some supportive mixture, usually jabung.
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8th August 2017, 11:27 AM | #130 | |
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Question: What weight of the hilt would you expect from a light sheet silver hilt with some supportive mixture? |
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8th August 2017, 11:50 AM | #131 | |
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this could be a hilt from Cirebon or from the North-East coast of Java. Like you said byself, a very unique handle and very nice. Regards, Detlef |
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8th August 2017, 01:52 PM | #132 |
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Image below:- 12.5cm high, 225gm.
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8th August 2017, 04:00 PM | #133 | |
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My hilt got the same dimensions as your example and weighs ~235 grams. I believe it is partially casted (hollow casted) and carved/grinded. The flames around the nose and other details has been added later in the process. Not more than a guess. |
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8th August 2017, 04:01 PM | #134 | |
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Can you make some better photos of this hilt Roland. I would love to see it better. |
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8th August 2017, 05:48 PM | #135 |
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In the exhibition "Götter-Schmiede" was shown a Bali Keris with a nearly identical hilt, here a picture from the catalog. Sorry for the poor picture quality.
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8th August 2017, 06:32 PM | #136 |
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hmmm....now i am even more intrigued...
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8th August 2017, 06:58 PM | #137 | |
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here the picture from the complete keris, the sarung from Roland's keris is very similar and it looks like they coming from the same workshop. Both examples have a scabbard complete covered with silver sheet, with very good embossing and engraving work, outstanding work indeed. It's not exactly dated but guessed by the work done on this piece to end of the 19th to early 20th century. I would concur with this dating. Here a picture from this keris, sadly it will be difficult to see the fine work. Regards, Detlef |
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8th August 2017, 07:13 PM | #138 |
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Thanks Detlef.
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9th August 2017, 12:06 AM | #139 |
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Roland, I have never known a Balinese silver worker to cast this type of silver work, these hilts, and the thousands upon thousands of other silver objects that the craftsmen around Celuk make are 99.9% fabricated. Same goes for the workers in Kota Gede in Central Jawa.
There are production reasons and cost reasons for this. Casting is only economical when the quantity of silver used is not a consideration, or when the labour involved in casting will be offset by mass production. These hilts are not mass produced, they are one off productions. |
9th August 2017, 09:37 AM | #140 | |
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Regards |
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9th August 2017, 10:31 AM | #141 |
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Yes Jean, absolutely.
Ornamentation is not Balinese style, the "dragon"(?) is not Balinese style. I cannot see much of Bali anywhere, however, to the best of my knowledge China has not yet started to dabble in the keris market, the way it has in other collectables markets, so I'm prepared to accept this as Balinese for the time being. |
9th August 2017, 12:43 PM | #142 | |
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sure and please here they are. I cannot say anything about the Ificah-example except that mine is much more detailed and more skillfully made. I can see traces from engraving. My example is from ~1900 or earlier. BTW, the Mendak is decorated with very fine rubys. The last picture with the blade is from the auction house. A very rare four armed Ganesha figure. I turned the hilt 180° immediately after it arrived. Regards, Roland Last edited by Roland_M; 9th August 2017 at 01:12 PM. |
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9th August 2017, 04:17 PM | #143 |
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In many ways it looks more like a Barong or lion than a dragon, but it still does not seem to fit into any known Balinese style for said creatures. It's impressive regardless.
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9th August 2017, 04:30 PM | #144 | |
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9th August 2017, 04:32 PM | #145 |
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Roland, just to confirm:- the keris shown in post 142 is your keris, and it is attributed to pre-1900?
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9th August 2017, 05:40 PM | #146 | |
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9th August 2017, 11:23 PM | #147 |
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Thank you Roland.
Do you know if there was reliable provenance, and if there was not, who did the appraisal? |
10th August 2017, 10:04 AM | #148 | |
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I have no informations about the person which made the description for the auction house. German Auction houses often use the description from the seller without further investigations. So the description from the auction house is not very reliable in many cases. Around 1900 is Detlefs (sajen) Statement, he is extraordinary experienced, he got many books and saw thousends of Keris. If you like to see the scabbard, I will send some pictures to you via Email. The scabbard is worth to have a look on it. |
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10th August 2017, 11:00 AM | #149 |
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Thank you Roland.
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10th August 2017, 12:20 PM | #150 | |
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I don't saw thousends of Keris, houndreds sounds better! Last edited by Sajen; 10th August 2017 at 01:45 PM. |
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