PBX

[kai]

Fürstenhof means royal court.

I'd quibble that, rather than royal, noble court is a better translation - as already stated, it was meant to refer to kraton.

With dozens of kraton all over the place (or rather hundreds all over the archipelago), their usually rather restricted area of control, varying levels of dependencies and changing alliances, visiting Europeans certainly noted some similarities with European nobility. However, compared to the situation at home combined with colonial aspirations, it would have been psychologically a bit tough to accept all these usually pretty confined entities as kingdoms. Thus, Europeans tended to settle for some more generic term or lower hierarchy within the nobility scale: Fürstenhof in German, vorstenhof in Nederlands, etc.

Regards,
Kai

[Kulino]

Hi Kai,
I'm sure the traces are red lacquer. It blew me away too. Why this abundance???? What was there to prove or to claim? This is surely not a keris to wear or to show. I know, a keris sajen doesn’t come with kinatah. I noticed it only when I examined it outside and the sunlight made a couple of gold specs pop out. Then, when I checked it with magnifier glasses, the specs were all over the blade underneath the oil residue. Gold once covered the whole blade. The oil came later.
The layers which cover the blade consists of oil residue. The only way to get this, I know, is to oil it without cleaning of the earlier residue. Why was it left? If it was such an important keris, why wasn’t cleaned as ‘normal’ keris would have been? I can’t find any trace of pamor. Just sheats of metal covered with this residue through which the gold spec shine. Puzzeling….
Then again, why painting the scabbard black as if it had a pendok? The black is certainly a black lacquer resembling what I find on separately lacquered pendok. The meaning of black lacquer as far as I know, has to do with kraton pedigree. On the one hand humble and magical (sajen), on the other hand someone took great effort to mark it as important (Seals with PBX and black lacquered wooden sheet.) The keris fits beautifully in the scabbard, they are a match. The wood pamor showing a sumber. This was deliberatly chosen. It shows like it is an old scabbard fitting to an old keris but in a wonderful state. It must have been cared for, for a long time, otherwise it would already have rotted away or severely damaged. All contradictions and forming an enigma. The only answer I have is in the posts. I’m not sure which Allen’s thought are in this riddle.
I’m pretty sure Theo hasn’t seen this keris. The last time I met him in person must have been ten years ago or more. It was at his home, I believe when Dietrich Dresscher was there. The only one who knew where this keris came from was Martin Kerner. I've added a couple of pictures. No bended legs. Strange again.

[A. G. Maisey]

Well Kulino, you clearly don't need to polish up your basic Javanese, I obviously misread what the peculiar words indicated.

Please accept my apologies.

You're right about the difficulty with translations, sometimes its just not possible to translate an idea into a different language, because the original idea does not exist in that other language. I'm not a linguist, so I don't know how the professionals approach this problem, but what I do is to try to understand the sense and feeling of the idea in Language 1 and then bring that sense and feeling into Language 2, even if the words used don't necessary match a direct translation.

But actually, I've never bothered with going back to the original manuscripts of things that have already been translated. There is only so much time in any one person's lifetime, I use the efforts of others to give me more time. This means that wherever possible I use existing translations into either English or Bahasa Indonesia.

Several works that I have for which no translations had been done, I paid to have translated by old generation Javanese people who could still read hanacaraka fluently. The last of these I had done during the 1990's, and even at that time it was very, very difficult to find anybody who could read the old script well. My original translators were a relative who made wayang puppets, he passed away in about 1983, after him a relative who was a school teacher, she passed away in the late 1980's, then I used a neighbour who was a retired public servant, he went blind in about 1993. After that I could not find anybody who was a truly competent reader of hanacaraka. I've got plenty of relatives who know the basics, but translation of any extended work is well and truly beyond them.

However, be all that as it may. We still have a problem with:-

Winginkinan punika ingkang sae

is "winginkinan" a typo, or have you given "wingkingan" (your "wingkinan") the "in" infix of Old Javanese?

In any case, this is krama that we're looking at, so "wingkingan" should perhaps be read as if it were "buri", which could mean:- later, after a while, past, then, or last, depending on context.


In respect of the "wingkinan" spelling of "wingkingan":- are you using a roman text and does the text you are working from use a cedilla under the "n"? If so, this indicates a spoken sound "ng".

[A. G. Maisey]

In respect of black kemalo on a gandar.

Black can be used by all ranks within the Karaton hierarchy, and it can also be used by the general public.

It is the correct colour kemalo for wear at a funeral.

However, that does not necessarily mean that it was given black kemalo for wear at a funeral, only the person who had the black kemalo applied could tell you the reason he had it done, but a well mannered person would not ask him why, and if he was asked he probably would not tell you the true reason in any case.

[Kulino]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Well Kulino, you clearly don't need to polish up your basic Javanese, I obviously misread what the peculiar words indicated.

Please accept my apologies.

You're right about the difficulty with translations, sometimes its just not possible to translate an idea into a different language, because the original idea does not exist in that other language. I'm not a linguist, so I don't know how the professionals approach this problem, but what I do is to try to understand the sense and feeling of the idea in Language 1 and then bring that sense and feeling into Language 2, even if the words used don't necessary match a direct translation.

But actually, I've never bothered with going back to the original manuscripts of things that have already been translated. There is only so much time in any one person's lifetime, I use the efforts of others to give me more time. This means that wherever possible I use existing translations into either English or Bahasa Indonesia.

Several works that I have for which no translations had been done, I paid to have translated by old generation Javanese people who could still read hanacaraka fluently. The last of these I had done during the 1990's, and even at that time it was very, very difficult to find anybody who could read the old script well. My original translators were a relative who made wayang puppets, he passed away in about 1983, after him a relative who was a school teacher, she passed away in the late 1980's, then I used a neighbour who was a retired public servant, he went blind in about 1993. After that I could not find anybody who was a truly competent reader of hanacaraka. I've got plenty of relatives who know the basics, but translation of any extended work is well and truly beyond them.

However, be all that as it may. We still have a problem with:-

Winginkinan punika ingkang sae

is "winginkinan" a typo, or have you given "wingkingan" (your "wingkinan") the "in" infix of Old Javanese?

In any case, this is krama that we're looking at, so "wingkingan" should perhaps be read as if it were "buri", which could mean:- later, after a while, past, then, or last, depending on context.


In respect of the "wingkinan" spelling of "wingkingan":- are you using a roman text and does the text you are working from use a cedilla under the "n"? If so, this indicates a spoken sound "ng".

Dear Alan,
You are right. it was a typo. And in this case I used the roman text. I have to admit, my own Javanese is rudimentary. I made use of Javanese friends and
friends who have studied Indonesian language and culture at Leiden university with prof. Teeuw.
My Solonese teacher and Javanese friend who were fluent also passed away. Luckily we' ve managed to translate the metal varieties in Dutch.
It has not been published. This also goes for the explained hundreds of pamor and pamor details. I promised my Solonese teacher to publish but was more or less forbidden to do so by my current Yogja teacher. As council to the Sultan, I presume he knows best. Too sensitive he said. I keep it for the family to study and learn.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Kulino, typos can always happen.

Re your translation of "metal varieties", I assume you mean the various types of Wesi Aji?

In 1934 in Solo, "De Bliksem" published a little guide named "Wesiadji", that was a part of a much larger work which dealt with many aspects of the keris. "Wesiadji" lists the various types of iron and how to identify them, also, what offerings are appropriate for those types of iron, and what types of iron are good or bad. This purportedly came down to us from Panembahan di Karang, AKA Batara Moedik.
This 1934 edition was a romanised version of the original in hanacaraka that was published in 1928, again by "De Bliksem".
Are you aware of this publication?


In 1959 R.T. Waluyodipuro published "Dhuwung luwin Ubarampe saha Lalajenganipun". This was in two parts, in the second part, dealing with pamor, and headed :- " Saking Babon Sanes , Babon Asli Saking Soerakarta" (freely:- "From original Surakarta Manuscripts") he deals with pamor quite intensively, the image below is an example of one of the pages from the book. I apologise for the quality of the image, but it is a photo of a photocopy that was made from a poorly preserved original. Still, I think it is clear enough? Is this similar to the pamor information your Ngayogyakarta friend advised you to refrain from making public?

Kulino, I would most respectfully suggest that in relation to the advice of your friend from Ngayogyakarta, you may care to apply the basic principles of understanding that are appropriate to all dealings within Javanese relationships.

Personally I find it rather strange that an Abdi Dalem of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta should presume to tender advice that contravenes the wishes of somebody connected to the Karaton Surakarta, in respect of a document which originated from Surakarta. Let us not forget that Ngayogyakarta is the junior House of the Mataram Line, even if they do have some pretty inflated opinions. Admitted, in recent times Ngayogyakarta has exercised considerable political power, and Surakarta has had its own internal problems, but these two factors do not obliterate the historical truth and the true order of the world.

[Kulino]

Hi Alan,

With the metal varieties I mean the descriptions as recorded in the Pakem Pusaka, duwung,sabet, tumbak. As described by R.Ng Ronggowarsito, put in roman/latin writing by R.Ng. Hartokretarto in 1925. Chapter 1, dumugi and chapter 2 Rupinipun tosan ingkang awon sarta ingkang sae. It describes 44 types of iron like tosan malela, tosan padma, tosan wulung, tosan sembodja, etc. with scent, colour, glow, layers, skin and sometimes sound. It also describes the effects of these metals on the owner.

My Yogja teacher gave me this advice years after my Solo teacher passed away. They haven't met in person. My Solo teacher left Indonesia in the sixties. He was very much of a rebel, loyal to the Dutch. Concerned that the knowledge from his photographic memory would be lost he urged me and my co-students to write down the answers to our questions and more. He went back only once to find others had taken hold of his house(s) and its content. He adopted me in his family. I enjoyed his teachings and warm company during weekends and vacations for more than 14 years. He once said to me: "Now you know and can't ever pretend you did not know'. These words weigh heavy on my shoulders. Only now I begin the understand the scope his teachings. Only now the pieces of puzzle start coming together more and more.

The cult of keris which is here now, was not there at that time. At risk of sounding patronising, general public should not be give open access to all information. If people really want to know, answers will be given. Only when questions are asked. Not the full extent of all possible information because this needs to filled with understanding, maybe even in a different cultural context.
Understanding keris is different from collecting or trading. To me it means knowing wayang, lakons, stones, herbs, colours, mustika etc and their coherence.

Knowledge is connected to responsibility. To protect the content but also the potential users.
I'm sure my Solo teacher would have agreed to this. This was the line in him educating me. It was respect shown by my Yogja teacher towards my Solo teacher. But I believe this principle is not different than you described in your message?

In my opinion pamor signs are not isolated phenomena. It is a manifestation of a part of a reality. The pamor descriptions I have are more detailed, less grouped. They are like an alphabet. They can be grouped differently, generating different meaning, depending on the context. Drawing them, grasping them, grinds understanding, creating interpretation. It's almost like Chinese characters. No one knows them all, you have to study them to understand. In combination with each other, they create context which needs to be interpreted. With keris the context has to be completed with the dapur, metal hulu, dress and the present custodian/fellow traveller. Without that context the keris has no purpose, is just a wonderful ethnographic object.
I guess it is the same with you understanding dapur and more. It took effort, time to sink in. It is useless to share.

Again, I’m afraid this is far beyond which is allowed in this section of Keris. Please excuse me for trespassing.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you very much for your most recent post Kulino.

Please permit me to assure you that you have not "trespassed" at all, rather, you have said more in this post # 37 than you have said in all your previous posts, and I most sincerely thank you for this.

Now I believe understand your orientation and understanding of the keris, and that is a giant leap forward for me.

I know the original Ronggowarsito work, but do not have a copy, I have not seen the Hartokretarto transliteration into roman text.

My understanding of the Ronggowarsito work is that it takes the theosophical approach that grew in popularity amongst the Javanese elites as colonial domination became more oppressive. This understanding has been gained second hand from discussion with a relative who had intense interest in Javanese theosophy. As with virtually all writings by Karaton pujanggas, the content of this work was not drawn from thin air, nor from imagination, it came from earlier sources that were then re-interpreted by R.Ng. Ronggowarsito. My understanding is that the major source was an earlier manuscript from a Pajang pujangga. I do not recall all the details, and as I said, this is second hand knowledge and as such, could be flawed. It is something I have never pursued.

R. Ng. Hartokretarto was involved in the production of a pre-WWII magazine that was printed in Solo between about 1920 and 1940, I believe that WWII put an end to it. This magazine was called "Kumandhang Theosofie" ( An Echo of Theosophy), I have seen photocopies of this magazine, I think perhaps the originals of these photocopies might be in the Mangkunegaraan Library in Solo.

The Solo elites were of course loyal to the Dutch, this attitude was still very much alive in the 1960's and 1970's, but it has faded into history in recent years. I know one lady who was born in the late 1930's who was educated in a Catholic school that was very much Dutch-Catholic, and whose way of thinking, even now, is very much Dutch orientated. She collects all types of porcelain that have pictures of windmills. Not interested in anything else, only windmills. If they were real windmills, her house would fly away.

But is this acceptance of Dutch values a rebellious attitude?
Well, that probably depends upon the way in which a person thinks.
Children rebel against authority.
Adults accept the authority and work around it, or with it.
There is a Javanese saying that translates as:-
"Do not try to lift more than you can carry"
A core value of the Javanese persona is "nrima" : to accept without protest or to resign oneself to something; the concept being that all is pre-ordained and to attempt to change that which God has arranged is not only arrogant, but also stupid, and a price will have to be paid. The world turns.
The elites of Solo are probably more Javanese than anybody else in the Land of Jawa.

Kulino, you have voiced the opinion that the cult of the keris was not in existence during the time you were receiving instruction from your teacher.

I would take a slightly different perspective in relation to that matter:-

in Jawa Tengah, the "cult of the keris" has never been dead, it has always been a part of the core values of Javanese culture, however, it is only since perhaps the mid -1970's that we have seen an increase in interest in the keris, and only since the monetary crisis of the late 1990's that a popular interest has developed. There are a number of reasons for that popular interest, and I would prefer not to comment further on this.

I love this passage in your post:-

" At risk of sounding patronising, general public should not be give open access to all information. If people really want to know, answers will be given. Only when questions are asked. Not the full extent of all possible information because this needs to filled with understanding, maybe even in a different cultural context."

I could well have written this myself. It is exactly, precisely the way in which Javanese knowledge is transmitted, and sometimes, very, very rarely, the way in which the questions are answered is not from any earthly source.

The real reason for restricting knowledge is to protect the person who does not have the foundation understanding to permit him to use the knowledge in an appropriate way. Without that foundation understanding the new knowledge itself cannot be understood, thus it just becomes so many words that lack meaning. But this also must be considered:- only those who are able to use the knowledge appropriately will be able to understand that knowledge:- for the uninitiated it is only words, for the initiated it becomes knowledge.

Kulino, your comments regarding the understanding of pamor motifs reflect your approach to keris study, and I now understand that the way you have approached this is through a Javanese belief system that owes much to the influence of Sufic mysticism on Javanese culture, which began in the mid-1500's, and probably reached its peak in late colonial times.

Some of this belief has become popular belief and as such is more or less common knowledge, some of this belief can be considered as restricted knowledge.

After review of what you have written since the beginning of this thread, I have formed my own opinion that your Solo teacher held an attitude that the time in history had come for some things that were a part of his culture to be passed into the bank of world knowledge to ensure that those things were not lost forever.

On the other hand, your Jogja friend seems to have the attitude that when the purpose for any knowledge no longer exists, it quite acceptable for that knowledge to disappear.

I make no comment either for or against these two opposing opinions.

I leave it to you to form your own opinion of the way in which you should act. This way will be shown to you by the peace of your inner feelings (kabatinan).

[Kulino]

Dear Alan,
Thank you.
In respect of my Solo teacher’s rebel character, I have to say this went beyond just a feeling. After surviving the Japanese camps he was active as an intelligence officer.

My position in sharing knowledge has only partly to do with the road to understanding. We agree, this takes lots of time and effort. I even took up Solonese dancing for 13 years, six hours a week, not to perform but to understand. Although I knew that a well-trained late starter cannot exceed the level of a 15 year old Javanese dancer, I have to say I fully enjoyed dancing Menak Jinggo among others and ultimately Kelana Topeng. Performing was not my cup of tea but it came with the turf. To understand one has to immerse one self, not just skim the surface. But even then as I know of my dancing skills, as a non native one can only go to a certain dept. Sad to say that this dept is deeper then most Javanese get nowadays.

My hesitance also has to do with the abuse of knowledge. I have seen people use this knowledge to exercise power over feeble minded people. I have seen people charging a lot of money for bogus information. I do not want the things I hold close to my heart, to be part of that. It should not be a commercial instrument at least not by my doing. This is why I keep myself far from trading or collecting. Keris travel by themselves. By trading you will not acquire a higher standard.

As to your non earthly sources: I was brought to my Yogya teacher by a good Javanese friend of mine, also his cousin. At first he seemed to be reserved, but when I met him later that evening after his meditations he told me that the Elders had ordered him to answer all my questions. And boy, I had some questions. During our many discussions, many of the things my Solonese teacher told me, started to make a deeper sense. In itself is was weird to have discussions at all for Adat reasons, but more than once he expressed his great appreciation for me questioning items and the fact that we actually discussed matters. I think I ‘grew up’ in the middle, maybe the same as you. Is was, according to both my teachers, already predicted by Sunan Kalijogo. ’ White buffalos crossing the water as guardians of knowledge.’ I haven’t read the Joyoboyo but the fact that both mentioned it is nice.
Tak dir.

Let's assume for arguments sake, Kodrat stands for nature and Irogdat would stand voor culture.
Pamors appearing in nature, can also be found in culture. Patterns in stone (Aki) could appear in keris. In your opinion, what is their connection?

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Kulino, I can understand how you have attempted to come closer to a Javanese mindset.

A house can have many windows, and the view through each window is different, but sometimes those different views can overlap.

In the order of creation there is one common essence that passes through and is possessed by everything, but the various things in creation possess that essence in varying quantities:- a man will possess more than a horse, a horse will possess more than tree, a tree will possess more than a rock. Creation and the Creator are inseparable and exist as unity. The repetition of a natural pattern is no more and no less than the expression of a concept by the creator.

Man in his physical form is not able to understand that which is beyond his experience, but he can copy and does copy these concepts, even though he does not understand them. In his arrogance he invents his own interpretations.

Nothing made by man can dominate that which has been made by the Creator, and all in existence is an expression of the Creator's will. This concept can be understood in two different and opposing ways, and both are true. Javanese thought.

The Gospel according to Thomas is a collection of sayings, or ideas that were disallowed by the early Christian church, and is believed by some Bible scholars to reflect the early oral traditions of Christianity. It is a part of the Nag Hammadi Library. This is one of the better known sayings from Thomas:-

I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there.

This reflects very closely one tenet of the indigenous Javanese system of belief.

To understand Jawa it is necessary to understand the grassroots beliefs of the common people.

The keris in Jawa is a multi facetted object.
Those facets run into a very comprehensive list, and relate to most human activities and philosophical approaches to life. In any consideration of the keris we need to understand that Javanese culture and society does not operate at any level on a single understanding, nor a single meaning, that relates to anything. Every icon, every symbol, every way of behaviour, every word has multiple meanings , none of which disallow any others.

Thus, there is more than just one way in which to understand the keris.

In the elite levels of traditional Javanese society it was, and is, deemed unfitting for a man to be involved with money or commerce. Money by its very nature is impure, as such, money, and all related to it is unclean, and thus is the domain of women, who are impure beings. We can see the reflection of this way of thought in the way in which traditional trade in Jawa is carried on today:- it is the role of women to trade, it is the role of men to build reputation.

This societal prohibition on men being involved with money created a difficulty, in that a man was very restricted in how he was able to store wealth in a societally acceptable form. Gold, gems, real estate, live-stock, horses, keris --- all these things were clean ways in which to store wealth. All these things are subject to trade, and because of their function within traditional Javanese society, they must be traded:- you buy when you have money, but before the crop comes in, when times are getting tough, you sell. This is the way in which traditional Javanese society works.

It is recognised that within Javanese society the people who have the highest knowledge of the keris are the people who are involved in the keris trade. This was recognised in Centini where it is decided that if the speakers wish to learn about keris, they need to go down to the market to discuss with a seller (sorry for the gloss, but I forget the details and I don't have time to look up sources and quotes).

Thus, one aspect of the keris is as a store of wealth, and in the Javanese mind, this aspect does not disallow other aspects, so the same keris that is a store of wealth from one perspective can be a powerful spiritual icon from a different perspective.

To understand how this can be, one needs to be able to think in a Javanese fashion:- nothing is limited to only one meaning, nor to only one way of understanding.

It is our kabatinan that suggests, sometimes directs, us to think in a particular way that is in harmony with the circumstances.

[David]

Gentlemen, i cannot tell you how wonderful this conversation is for me right now and the synchronicity of thought it is having with other conversations i am having in other places at the moment.
Alan, this last post of yours is just amazingly presented from my perspective. Thank you very much.

[Kulino]

Dear Alan,
You have explained things so eloquently, no other words are needed.

Looking at your comment in respect of creation and men, another thought.
My teacher taught me exactly the rule you mentioned. He added that the combination of men made objects and creation would empower the object. For educational purposes, could you comment on that?

I agree, keris are an asset with a potential monetary value. The thing that bugs me the most is that some trading is done with the idea that with obtaining the keris you gain a higher (social, spiritual) standard. It becomes a kind of competition. And with that, the more you can spend, the higher the standard you can obtain.
That’s totally different from the regular man's economic necessity.
Although I think it is a shame to sell a prized family possession, I also realise that is a very elite point of view.
In the western world we have discarded all things spiritual and now some of us are in deer need for them. So we turn to cultures which still uphold these values. When we see these cultures picking up the western path by choosing a Honda instead of a keris, we are shocked. We forget that to (re) appreciate ones roots, apparently one has to go through a series of cultural stages. With the risk of losing things in transit.

Maybe it is better to say that I can afford to stay away from trading. Sometimes I cannot avoid a money exchange. I paid for the keris sajen. But also sometimes I step away from a tempting keris. Martin Kerner offered me the keris Vogelsäng shortly before he passed away. The proto keris was excavated inside the krater of mount Bromo. From me he would accept any offer because, as he told me, he wanted a good home for the keris. I thanked him for his kind offer, but refused. Why, it is such an unique keris, only seen depicted in Candi Sukuh? The keris was an offering to the spirits of mount Bromo. It should not have been taken away from the mountain in the first place. That's why I drew that line. No idea where it is now.

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm pleased that what I have written in my post # 40 was of interest.

However, what I did not say in that post, and what I would like to add now, is that the view I have placed before you is not an all encompassing perspective that covers all Javanese people through all periods of time. It is a bit of a mish-mash of a few dominant ideas that wind through 1000 years or more.

For instance, the remarks in respect of women and their place in society would have no place in the society of the Hindu-Buddhist era. Quite the reverse would be true:- man + woman complete the societal unit and are the foundation of a strong society. One cannot be complete without the other. The central icon of the belief system during that era was the Lingga-Yoni, symbolic of not only Siwa and his Shakti, but of the male/female principle and the totality of past-present-future. Without reproduction the cosmos collapses. This is something that is very well understood by all traditionally based farming societies, but people who buy their milk in cartons from a supermarket need to stop and think just exactly where the milk comes from, especially if they have never seen or smelt a cow.

Money was clearly not a dirty word in Majapahit times:- Majapahit was deeply involved in trade, and much of that trade was controlled by princes and nobles from the Majapahit court.

But then Islam entered the arena and gradually a new set of values replaced some of the old values. Then there was the domination of the Javanese ruling elite by Europeans, which did not help much in the maintenance of the old ways.

So what we see now, and in the recent past cannot be taken as representative of an unchanging perspective through the totality of Javanese time. However, it is probably true to say that the Hindu-Buddhist influence, the Islamic influence, the influence of Europeans, and right now at the present time, the influence of Internationalism are merely layers that cover an unchanging foundation, a foundation that is so ingrained in the Javanese persona that most Javanese people would not consciously recognise its elements. Its just there. It exists but is unseen, and it does not come to the surface until some situation calls for it to re-emerge.

Those elements that are constant are the ancestors, the stream of being that flows through everything in existence, and the unity of the One God : The Creator : The Maintainer : The Finisher. Time does not flow in a straight line, it is cyclical, so that which finishes, forms the new creation. Everything in existence is a part of the same whole.

If we can relate to this way of looking at the fact that we exist at all, it brings us back to something I wrote in my previous post:-

"--- all in existence is an expression of the Creator's will ---"

if this is true, does man create anything?

Before the Modern Era when a Balinese person created any art-work, he was performing the act of creation for God. It was not the final result that was the objective, the objective was the form of worship that the act of creation involved. A shrine is an empty place until the moment that the spirit of that shrine takes up residence in it. A man can be thought of in the same way. This way of thinking is not unique to any culture, but recurs and recurs and recurs through all cultures.

So:-

" --- the combination of men made objects and creation would empower the object ---"

was the object made by man?

Does "man" actually have the independent power to make anything?

[Kulino]

A nice philosophical question: Does man create anything.
I teach fine art for a living. I use to be quite a proficient painter. There I had the same feeling as when I danced. When a painting was finished I had to conclude that somehow the painting had ‘done itself’. Dancing a dance or being a dance (filling the character of the dance). This difference has the same scope. Was it just channelling a higher genius, Godly energy? Maybe. When man touches Roh it is due because of his intend, free choice or was it already in store for him? If so, how can man strive to reach a higher level? Or was even this road already intended. Many religions ask themselves the same question.
Both my teachers told me not to follow a ready path but make my own. And to be aware of the events,(or objects) which occurs during my journey.
The thing is, both keris and stones are a manifestation of our reality.
Was the combination of keris and stone intended like a marriage. One fulfils the other?

This pyrit has not been touched. It is pure kodrat. The nails runs through and through. Kodrat Paku Buana.

Reading back I have to re-phrase. Making my own path is not like breaking new ground. It is more like surfing on top of a wave (a nice metaphor which must appeal to you ), following the wave, anticipating on what I ‘see’. Tak dir is true, but somehow this is not contradicting, me surfing.