IBAN WITH PISO PODANG

carlos · 30th November 2005, 06:09 PM

IN THE FRONT OF THE BOOK " IBAN ART" APPEARS A MAN WEARING A PODANG SWORD WITH TUFTS OF HAIR IN THE POMMEL. INSIDE THE BOOK APPEARS ANOTHER PISO PODANG (PAG.122).
NO IS THE MANDAU THR TYPICAL SWORD OF THIS PEOPLE?.
INSIDE THE BOOK THERE ARE A BEATIFUL PAGES WITH MANDAUS, HILT AND JIMPUL.
THANKS

VVV · 30th November 2005, 06:28 PM

You are lucky to already have recieved your book.
I am still waiting for mine.
It's quite common to see Iban with a Piso Podang in old pictures.
I have noticed that usually the Iban version is shorter than the Batak and also that the top of the hilt (pommel) is not open like usually the Batak version.
So far I haven't heard anything other than speculations on why the same sword occurs in two different places and cultures.
I assume that from the beginning it's influenced by the Portuguese swords?
And the Ibans is probably the Dayak tribe who had most contact with other cultures?
I don't remember the source but I think I have read somewhere that they stopped in Sumatra when migrating from China to Borneo (Mjöberg maybe?).

Look forward to read the input from the other members of this list.

Michael

VVV · 1st December 2005, 02:18 AM

Here is a picture of a "PP" that I suspect is Iban and not Batak.
The top of the handle is under the attached belt.

Michael

carlos · 1st December 2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Here is a picture of a "PP" that I suspect is Iban and not Batak.
The top of the handle is under the attached belt.

Michael

thanks for the information!!!, is a beautiful picture!!
carlos

VANDOO · 2nd December 2005, 02:20 AM

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GOT THERE BUT THERE ARE MANY PISO PODANG IN BORNEO AND I THINK THEY WERE ALL OLD ONES SO PERHAPS A LARGE SHIPMENT CAME INTO THE COUNTRY AT SOME TIME IN THE PAST. I SAW ONE WITH CHINESE DECOR AND A FEW WITH DAYAK DECOR BUT MOST WERE IN THEIR NATURAL STATE. MOST WERE IN THE KUCHING AREA.

RhysMichael · 2nd December 2005, 04:22 PM

Aren't Sarawak and the Batak regions of Indonesia fairly close ?

VANDOO · 2nd December 2005, 05:25 PM

I AM NOT REALLY VERY WELL READ ON THE BATAK BUT DO KNOW THAT THEY WERE INVOLVED IN TRADE OVER A WIDE AREA BEFORE THE EUROPEANS GOT INVOLVED. I AM PRETTY SURE THE CHINESE WERE ALSO TRADEING DURING THAT PERIOD IF NOT DIRECTLY PERHAPS THRU THE BATAK. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE STRONGHOLDS OF THE BATAK WERE LOCATED AND IF THEY HAD ANY ON BORNEO OR NOT BUT IT IS VERY LIKELY THERE WERE AT LEAST TRADEING OUTPOSTS THRUOUT THE REGION.
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT A TRADER CAME ACROSS A LARGE SUPPLY OF PISO PODANGS THAT WERE NO LONGER IN DEMAND IN THE AREA OR BEING REPLACED FROM SOME ARMORY WHERE THEY WERE NO LONGER USED. THEY COULD THEN BUY THEM CHEAP AND TAKE THEM TO OTHER AREAS WHERE THERE WAS A DEMAND AND SELL OR TRADE THEM THERE AT A GOOD PROFIT.
I HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN OVER THE YEARS, CERTIAN WEAPONS SHOW UP IN MASS IN SHOTGUN NEWS AT CHEAP PRICES. THE BANNERMAN ARMS DEALER WAS FAMOUS FOR THIS HE WOULD BUY OUT ENTIRE ARMYS AFTER A WAR ENDED OR THEY BECAME OBSOLETE IN ONE AREA AND TAKE THEM TO SELL IN A AREA WHERE THEY WERE SUPIEOR TO WHAT THEY CURRENTLLY HAD. THE CURRENT MOVIE " LORD OF WAR" TELLS THE STORY OF THIS TYPE OF DEALING VERY WELL, AND IT STILL GOES ON AT PRESENT.
JUST MORE CONJECTURE ON MY PART

VVV · 5th December 2005, 10:39 AM

I just recieved my copy of Iban Art - great new book.
I suspect it's the same sword on the cover and on page 122.
What's interesting is that the author remarks:
"Probably made in Brunei, though Iban often made their own blades."

Michael

Raja Muda · 6th December 2005, 01:53 AM

Hi Vandoo,

I think I've seen the very same swords you've mentioned in Kuching. I guess you meant the Iban decorated Piso Podang in that row of antique shops on the Kuching waterfront. One or two I saw were pretty large so could it be possible that some of these are actually tulwars, redecked in Iban gear. I thought there was a reference somewhere in Gardner's book about Indian weapons confiscated from the Mutineers offloaded in great quantities in the Southeast Asian markets? Could this be the source for some of the swords.

VANDOO · 6th December 2005, 04:03 AM

YES I AM SURE YOU SAW SOME OF THE SAME SWORDS I DID, THEY DO HAVE A GOOD SUPPLY OF THEM LOCALLY. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW SHOPS IN THAT AREA AND A LOT OF INTERESTING ITEMS IN THEM. IT IS VERY EDUCATIONAL TO SEE ALL THE THINGS THEY HAVE WHICH RANGE FROM OLD TO NEW, FROM TRADITIONAL TO FANTASY. NOT ONLY WERE THERE DRAGON MANDAU THERE WERE MERMAID MANDAU ALSO

I THINK IT LIKELY THAT A LARGE NUMBER OF SWORDS FROM INDIA OR SOMEWHERE ELSE SHOWED UP AT ONE TIME OR PERHAPS SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE YEARS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THE STORY BUT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF REASEARCH OF OLD CUSTOMS AND CARGO MANIFESTS TO EVER FIND, AND WHO KNOWS IF THE PAPERWORK STILL SURVIVES.
I ENJOYED BORNEO AND WOULDN'T MIND GOING AGAIN IF I EVER GET THE CHANCE ITS AS HOT AS HOUSTON TEXAS ON A BAD DAY AROUND KUCHING THOUGH, SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOT IT WOULD NOT BE PLESANT.

30th November 2005, 06:09 PM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	IBAN WITH PISO PODANG IN THE FRONT OF THE BOOK " IBAN ART" APPEARS A MAN WEARING A PODANG SWORD WITH TUFTS OF HAIR IN THE POMMEL. INSIDE THE BOOK APPEARS ANOTHER PISO PODANG (PAG.122). NO IS THE MANDAU THR TYPICAL SWORD OF THIS PEOPLE?. INSIDE THE BOOK THERE ARE A BEATIFUL PAGES WITH MANDAUS, HILT AND JIMPUL. THANKS

1st December 2005, 02:18 AM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here is a picture of a "PP" that I suspect is Iban and not Batak. The top of the handle is under the attached belt. Michael Attached Images

6th December 2005, 01:53 AM	#9
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Swords in Kuching Hi Vandoo, I think I've seen the very same swords you've mentioned in Kuching. I guess you meant the Iban decorated Piso Podang in that row of antique shops on the Kuching waterfront. One or two I saw were pretty large so could it be possible that some of these are actually tulwars, redecked in Iban gear. I thought there was a reference somewhere in Gardner's book about Indian weapons confiscated from the Mutineers offloaded in great quantities in the Southeast Asian markets? Could this be the source for some of the swords.

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30th November 2005, 06:28 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	You are lucky to already have recieved your book. I am still waiting for mine. It's quite common to see Iban with a Piso Podang in old pictures. I have noticed that usually the Iban version is shorter than the Batak and also that the top of the hilt (pommel) is not open like usually the Batak version. So far I haven't heard anything other than speculations on why the same sword occurs in two different places and cultures. I assume that from the beginning it's influenced by the Portuguese swords? And the Ibans is probably the Dayak tribe who had most contact with other cultures? I don't remember the source but I think I have read somewhere that they stopped in Sumatra when migrating from China to Borneo (Mjöberg maybe?). Look forward to read the input from the other members of this list. Michael

2nd December 2005, 02:20 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GOT THERE BUT THERE ARE MANY PISO PODANG IN BORNEO AND I THINK THEY WERE ALL OLD ONES SO PERHAPS A LARGE SHIPMENT CAME INTO THE COUNTRY AT SOME TIME IN THE PAST. I SAW ONE WITH CHINESE DECOR AND A FEW WITH DAYAK DECOR BUT MOST WERE IN THEIR NATURAL STATE. MOST WERE IN THE KUCHING AREA.

2nd December 2005, 04:22 PM	#6
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Aren't Sarawak and the Batak regions of Indonesia fairly close ?

2nd December 2005, 05:25 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AM NOT REALLY VERY WELL READ ON THE BATAK BUT DO KNOW THAT THEY WERE INVOLVED IN TRADE OVER A WIDE AREA BEFORE THE EUROPEANS GOT INVOLVED. I AM PRETTY SURE THE CHINESE WERE ALSO TRADEING DURING THAT PERIOD IF NOT DIRECTLY PERHAPS THRU THE BATAK. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE STRONGHOLDS OF THE BATAK WERE LOCATED AND IF THEY HAD ANY ON BORNEO OR NOT BUT IT IS VERY LIKELY THERE WERE AT LEAST TRADEING OUTPOSTS THRUOUT THE REGION. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT A TRADER CAME ACROSS A LARGE SUPPLY OF PISO PODANGS THAT WERE NO LONGER IN DEMAND IN THE AREA OR BEING REPLACED FROM SOME ARMORY WHERE THEY WERE NO LONGER USED. THEY COULD THEN BUY THEM CHEAP AND TAKE THEM TO OTHER AREAS WHERE THERE WAS A DEMAND AND SELL OR TRADE THEM THERE AT A GOOD PROFIT. I HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN OVER THE YEARS, CERTIAN WEAPONS SHOW UP IN MASS IN SHOTGUN NEWS AT CHEAP PRICES. THE BANNERMAN ARMS DEALER WAS FAMOUS FOR THIS HE WOULD BUY OUT ENTIRE ARMYS AFTER A WAR ENDED OR THEY BECAME OBSOLETE IN ONE AREA AND TAKE THEM TO SELL IN A AREA WHERE THEY WERE SUPIEOR TO WHAT THEY CURRENTLLY HAD. THE CURRENT MOVIE " LORD OF WAR" TELLS THE STORY OF THIS TYPE OF DEALING VERY WELL, AND IT STILL GOES ON AT PRESENT. JUST MORE CONJECTURE ON MY PART

5th December 2005, 10:39 AM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I just recieved my copy of Iban Art - great new book. I suspect it's the same sword on the cover and on page 122. What's interesting is that the author remarks: "Probably made in Brunei, though Iban often made their own blades." Michael

6th December 2005, 04:03 AM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YES I AM SURE YOU SAW SOME OF THE SAME SWORDS I DID, THEY DO HAVE A GOOD SUPPLY OF THEM LOCALLY. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW SHOPS IN THAT AREA AND A LOT OF INTERESTING ITEMS IN THEM. IT IS VERY EDUCATIONAL TO SEE ALL THE THINGS THEY HAVE WHICH RANGE FROM OLD TO NEW, FROM TRADITIONAL TO FANTASY. NOT ONLY WERE THERE DRAGON MANDAU THERE WERE MERMAID MANDAU ALSO I THINK IT LIKELY THAT A LARGE NUMBER OF SWORDS FROM INDIA OR SOMEWHERE ELSE SHOWED UP AT ONE TIME OR PERHAPS SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE YEARS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THE STORY BUT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF REASEARCH OF OLD CUSTOMS AND CARGO MANIFESTS TO EVER FIND, AND WHO KNOWS IF THE PAPERWORK STILL SURVIVES. I ENJOYED BORNEO AND WOULDN'T MIND GOING AGAIN IF I EVER GET THE CHANCE ITS AS HOT AS HOUSTON TEXAS ON A BAD DAY AROUND KUCHING THOUGH, SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOT IT WOULD NOT BE PLESANT.