Spear No2 for I.D. Please

Norman McCormick · 2nd February 2014, 08:42 PM

Hi,
This spear came from the same source as the Masai/Maasai? spear on another thread. This one may or may not come from the same peoples. Total length 68 inches (173 cm) head excluding socket 8 inches (20 cm). Although not immediately apparent on the photos the socket is facetted. All assistance gratefully received.
Regards,
Norman.

CharlesS · 2nd February 2014, 09:06 PM

This is a classic Sudanese broaded bladed spear and from the looks of it, it has good legit age that could date it to the 19th century. I would think it is certainly no more recent than very early 20th century.

Norman McCormick · 2nd February 2014, 09:28 PM

Hi Charles,
Many thanks for the prompt reply. Mahdist bringbacks are not uncommon here so you may very well have hit the nail on the head. Thanks again.
My Regards,
Norman.

spiral · 2nd February 2014, 10:12 PM

The dealer who had this on his website a year ago , had it listed as Sudanese. He didn't list the other spear...

Spiral

Norman McCormick · 2nd February 2014, 10:27 PM

Hi Jonathan,
No dealers involved?
My Regards,
Norman.

spiral · 3rd February 2014, 09:41 AM

My error then Norman. Apologies, looks identical to me... but haven't kept original photo..

spiral

colin henshaw · 3rd February 2014, 04:05 PM

Hi Norman

The profile of the blade does resemble that of the Baggara spears from the Sudan. However, the central ridge to the blade and socketed butt piece point to Somali origin, probably Somaliland area. Sudanese spears with an Islamic influence normally have an iron coil to the end. The facetted blade socket is also typical Somaliland.

Very nice spear.

Regards.

Norman McCormick · 3rd February 2014, 07:12 PM

Hi Colin,
As I said on the Masai post this spear was the one I went to get and the other was with it so nothing lost. Care to estimate the age of this one, in hand it gives the appearance of late 19th early 20thC. Many thanks for your input.
My Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 3rd February 2014, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

My error then Norman. Apologies, looks identical to me... but haven't kept original photo..

spiral

Hi Jonathan,
No probs

.
My Regards,
Norman.

colin henshaw · 4th February 2014, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Colin,
As I said on the Masai post this spear was the one I went to get and the other was with it so nothing lost. Care to estimate the age of this one, in hand it gives the appearance of late 19th early 20thC. Many thanks for your input.
My Regards,
Norman.

The date range you mention seems about right to me from the images, Norman. Here are a couple of extracts from the book "Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographical Specimens" W. O. Oldman for reference.

Regards
Colin

Norman McCormick · 4th February 2014, 08:00 PM

Many thanks Colin

My Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 4th February 2014, 10:51 PM

Hi,
These relevant images, as far as I can determine, from the turn of the 19th/20thC.
Rgeards,
Norman.

2nd February 2014, 08:42 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Spear No2 for I.D. Please Hi, This spear came from the same source as the Masai/Maasai? spear on another thread. This one may or may not come from the same peoples. Total length 68 inches (173 cm) head excluding socket 8 inches (20 cm). Although not immediately apparent on the photos the socket is facetted. All assistance gratefully received. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

2nd February 2014, 10:27 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Jonathan, No dealers involved? My Regards, Norman. Last edited by Norman McCormick; 2nd February 2014 at 10:39 PM.

4th February 2014, 10:51 PM	#12
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, These relevant images, as far as I can determine, from the turn of the 19th/20thC. Rgeards, Norman. Attached Images

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2nd February 2014, 09:06 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	This is a classic Sudanese broaded bladed spear and from the looks of it, it has good legit age that could date it to the 19th century. I would think it is certainly no more recent than very early 20th century.

2nd February 2014, 09:28 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Charles, Many thanks for the prompt reply. Mahdist bringbacks are not uncommon here so you may very well have hit the nail on the head. Thanks again. My Regards, Norman.

2nd February 2014, 10:12 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The dealer who had this on his website a year ago , had it listed as Sudanese. He didn't list the other spear... Spiral

3rd February 2014, 09:41 AM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	My error then Norman. Apologies, looks identical to me... but haven't kept original photo.. spiral

3rd February 2014, 04:05 PM	#7
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi Norman The profile of the blade does resemble that of the Baggara spears from the Sudan. However, the central ridge to the blade and socketed butt piece point to Somali origin, probably Somaliland area. Sudanese spears with an Islamic influence normally have an iron coil to the end. The facetted blade socket is also typical Somaliland. Very nice spear. Regards.

3rd February 2014, 07:12 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Colin, As I said on the Masai post this spear was the one I went to get and the other was with it so nothing lost. Care to estimate the age of this one, in hand it gives the appearance of late 19th early 20thC. Many thanks for your input. My Regards, Norman.

4th February 2014, 08:00 PM	#11
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Many thanks Colin My Regards, Norman.