Modern day Visayan Swords

[Dimasalang]

Finally, after searching months and trying to figure out how I can get another good quality modern day Philippine sword, the wait is over. I already had a modern day ginunting(parkerized w/ kydex sheath) that was offered by Buddy at Typhoon Gear...and when the time came when I wanted to get their other available sword, the DAHON PALAY(they only made two), the company was out of business. Lorenz post on Typhoon Gear Swords back in 2008. These were the same custom swords made specifically for the Philippine Force Recon Marines, which group also practices and trains in Pekiti Tirsia. Sgt Prado of the Force Recon Marines is also one of the top instructor in PTK....Sgt Prado is said to be the one who has these swords made to his specs and are now coming out of his shop. So these are not wall hangers. I purchased mine through a middle man who is selling them for Sgt. Prado...this coming from their first batch offered to the public. But rather than getting the Dahon Palay, I opt for a newer sword they now offered...which he calls their modern day version of the Talibung or Pinuti. They only had one available and it was first come first serve. So I might be the first one who has this sword outside the Philippines right now. Shipping was super fast, I paid Friday and got the sword Monday(yesterday)...expensive, but it was the only shipping offered as of now. The quality is there. Bade is 18.5"...overall length is 25.25". The scabbard and handle are Kamagong...yet both do not feel heavy at all. Seeing the finger grooves on the wood scabbard when I viewed the photos, I didn't really think or care much of them...but now that I have it in my hand and after handling it, it feels remarkably great! Also, true to Visayan style swords, the blade is flat on one side!....I was not expecting that, and actually, that is what I wanted. The tip on the back side of the blade is also sharpened. I just love the design and shape. Balance is excellent...spot on with my other Visayan swords of the early 1900s, which is what I expected anyways since my other ginunting that was also made by them was balanced well. The quality is not overall A-1 Class, but I would say well worth the money I spent. Coudn't be any more happier with this buy. Haven't took a pic of it yet. So heres a pic of the display image they had for it. The other of the Philippine Force Recon.

[Nathaniel]

Very cool Dimasalang. Beautiful piece. Thanks for sharing. While I know some turn their noses up at modern made ethnographic blades...I'm a fan if they are true to form and good quality, which 99% of the time is not what you find in modern made pieces.

[Spunjer]

man, that's pretty cool, bro! love the scabbard on that!!! how's the edge?

[Battara]

Looks wonderful, and like Ron, I love the scabbard.

[Dimasalang]

Thanks yall.
Nathaniel, I know what you mean. I typically will stay far away from anything modern day Philippine sword. But this is I would say is as good as they get as of now. Most blacksmiths of the Philippines can not even come close to the quality of the early 1900s swords. The chiseled edge isn't all too sharp Ron. So I'll be using this one.

[Atlantia]

I think it looks fantastic!
Also, it looks completely at home when being used by the two Marines!
They look like VERY serious customers!!!
I had one thought. I wondered if even a limited military application has necessitated using a more practical scabbard (webbing or leather)?
Then I noticed that they seem to have them slung across their backs?
Very interesting!

[kai]

Hello Gene,

They look like VERY serious customers!!!

Yes, indeed. Very few military units worldwide receive similarly dedicated blade training, if any.

I wondered if even a limited military application has necessitated using a more practical scabbard (webbing or leather)?

Kydex as shown in the link. I guess this is what most folks would choose for limited operations including airborne and waterborne (is that a word?) deployment.

However, wooden scabbards are definitely jungle-proven for long-term use. Not sure wether the jury is still out what is superior in wet-tropical climates nowadays?

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

love the scabbard on that!!!

Possible minority vote: I don't see any advantages over a more traditional design; and I'd love to see a revival of 19th c. carving art.

I'm not sure, I'd want to have finger grooves along the "business side" of any scabbard...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Congrats on a great acquisition!

The scabbard and handle are Kamagong...yet both do not feel heavy at all.

How hard is the wood?

I just love the design and shape.

Yeah, like it, too. Does it feel a bit more like a talibon than the ginunting version?

Balance is excellent...spot on with my other Visayan swords of the early 1900s, which is what I expected anyways since my other ginunting that was also made by them was balanced well.

What is the blade length of your ginunting? Which type has the better balance in your opinion?

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

The chiseled edge isn't all too sharp Ron.

Any clues on steel hardness when sharpening the edge? What is the original angle of the chisel grind? Any secondary bevel at the edge? Thanks a lot in advance!

[ThePepperSkull]

I've got a Ginunting on the way from the same middleman as you, Dimasalang. I'm still not sure whether or not I regret paying as much for it though.

I bought three blades from Nene Tortal's smiths for the same price as Top Prado's one ginunting so I guess I'll have to wait till it gets here to see whether or not it was worth it.

For me, the prospect of getting the same model of ginunting that the Marines use (wooden sheath, non parkerized blade, just like the marines have) is very enticing to me from an ethnographic and historical standpoint, which makes this purchase stand out in particular when compared to other modern blade purchases. (As I was told, the only difference between these blades and actual military issued ginunting are that the ones offered to us in this particular run are not numerically stamped. Also from what I have gathered, most Marines apparently prefer the 15-inch blade length for jungle carry. I opted for a longer 19 inch blade)

A very exciting prospect to own something like this, especially since I exclusively collect pieces that are modern made now ('modern made' being from the 90's onward in terms of my collection).


Also, on a slightly related note...








Speaking with the middleman as well, there was (only in passing, mind you) mention of possibly more runs of these blades available to the public. I hope this includes blades with the long s-guard that Sgt Prado in particular seems so fond of using (as I gather from the many pictures of him using one during lessons/seminars):








Also, RE: Typhoon Gear, they actually did have a new website up and running under the new company name of Typhoon Blades, but as of this post the website is down yet again.

[VVV]

Nice to see how the new models have developed. The first ginunting I got of the Force Recon-version had a more plain pommel and a plain wooden scabbard. That was when we were training with Tuhon in Philippines in 2005 and I think it was the numbered edition. At the moment I am traveling so I can't check at the studio where I keep my stick bag and unfortunately I don't have any pictures of it on my computer.
Like you I always preferred the full size version. The main reason to have it as short as the military version is that it is easier to carry with the rest of the equipment. A secondary reason might be that it was developed to counter the, also short, barong blades.
Here is a couple of pictures of the late 90's official PTK-version of the ginunting and the talibong. Both of them full length and with a high S-guard.

Michael

[ThePepperSkull]

Very interesting!

These look like the blades currently made by panday associated with Nene Tortal's Dekiti Tirsia Siradas group. From what I gather, those are made in Bacolod.

[VVV]

Yes, they were made in the Bacolod area. It's the same guy that was in the BBC documentary where they put venomous spiders on the blade.

Michael

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by kai

Congrats on a great acquisition!


How hard is the wood?

Thanks! The wood is obviously hard being Kamagong(Ironwood). What scares me about Kamagong is it can fracture or crack with time when taken out of its natural tropical humid environment. Especially where I live(Southern California), it is extremely dry here year round. Kamgong is heavy. I have Kamgong sticks as well and they can weight 3 times more than a rattan stick of the same length. But for some reason, the handle seems light as well as the scabbard...just seems odd to me, I actually thought it was fake for a moment.

Yeah, like it, too. Does it feel a bit more like a talibon than the ginunting version?

I only have one authentic Talibong. It feels completely different...the tip of the Talibong I have thins out. This modern day so-called "Talibung" actually has some weight at the end.

What is the blade length of your ginunting? Which type has the better balance in your opinion?

I have the shorter Ginunting with the 17" blade. Now that I had a few days to play with both and compare the two side by side, I honestly like the Ginunting better. Not sure which one is heavier(don't have a scale), they honestly feel the same weight even though the Ginunting is shorter, the blade is a little thicker. How the end widens on the Talibung blade just a bit actually added some weight at the end. We do more slashing, so the Talibung feels more heftier to manuever and swing around. The Ginunting just feels more practical for all around different applications...the blade thins out towards the tip. Not that Im some master swordsman or anything, but thats just my own amatuer observation and preference, I know others out there might like that bit of weight at the end.

Any clues on steel hardness when sharpening the edge? What is the original angle of the chisel grind? Any secondary bevel at the edge? Thanks a lot in advance!

I honestly don't know anything on the type of steel or the hardness. I know considering the price, it is not wise to buy blades with out knowing the detail of the steel used and that is info which should be given, I just wanted another from this smith considering how much I liked their Ginunting...I'll email the guy later to ask. There is a secondary bevel on the edge...not sure on the angle of the chisel grind.

Ginunting and Talibung side by side. Sorry for the poor quality cellphone pic. I can't find my camera.

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

I've got a Ginunting on the way from the same middleman as you, Dimasalang. I'm still not sure whether or not I regret paying as much for it though.

I bought three blades from Nene Tortal's smiths for the same price as Top Prado's one ginunting so I guess I'll have to wait till it gets here to see whether or not it was worth it.

Thanks for sharing pepperskull. I was actually looking forward to your post. Funny cause I actually thought you might have ordered one as well. haha I knew you also collected more recent blades. Please let me know what you think between the Top Prado's ginunting and the ones from Nene Tortal's smiths.

I am also looking forward to seeing more offered by Top Prado and the S-guard.

Just to add these images here for reference. I ran across an old post from 2009, and it looks like the s-guard and the scabbard was also offered at one time.

[ThePepperSkull]

I opted out of the original blade purchase to wait for the ginunting run with an s-guard. Down payment has been made and my Ginunting from Top Prado's shop should be ready within a month.

My Dekiti Tirsia ginunting is already made, but is having some issues getting to me though. A lot of red tape and permits on Tuhon Nene's end is apparently needed to send it from Bacolod. The middle man I'm working with is helping Tuhon Nene because they are sending more blades to more people as well.