panabas

eli · 3rd May 2005, 04:37 AM

Hi i just recently got this moro panabas off ebay. I dont know much about them And the seller didn't know much about this one. He did think the fittings were new but thats about all of his knowledge on it. So i would really like to know any thoughts you guys have on it. New, old, tourest piece what ever its fine with me. Just give any thoughts you have. All will be greatly appreciated.

Heres the link

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6526015614

tom hyle · 3rd May 2005, 01:11 PM

Can't say the age, but it seems to me these smaller, simpler, ones with the broader blade (especially in the base) are more the work ones? This is a vague and general impression; nothing solid; someone else can probably say more.

Ian · 3rd May 2005, 05:19 PM

Eli:

I think this one was made quite recently. There still seems to be some forging scale on the blade, usually a sign of little actual use. The simple brass ferrule is not traditional on large heavy panabas (usually iron rings on the heavy duty old ones) and that brass looks new, similar to other work coming out of Mindanao via Davao City. The wooden handle may have been turned on a lathe.

All indications point to fairly recent construction. The crudely forged blade might suggest it was made as a tool. But the dimensions seem too large and the weight too heavy for a convenient, brush cutting tool. I would say this one was made to sell as a recent reproduction of a traditional panabas. There, I managed to not say the "t" word again.

ian.

Conogre · 5th May 2005, 09:09 AM

Has anyone else, or Federico himself, for that matter, found any further information suggesting or confirming that the panabas itself is actually a weapon DERIVED from a similar appearing tool?
Once the statement was presented, I found myself strongly in agreement with it, based primarilly upon intuition, I admit.
While you're probably correct in the attribution of a piece made in the last 50 years or so, the fact that some fundamentalist Muslims consider attempted conversion a capitol offence along with the occasional "terrorist" act of a head in a bag (surprisingly often belonging to a missionary) would seem to indicate that some might still be being made "just in case".
While rather grisly humor is hard to avoid, I suspect that this might be the actual case, particularly in "plainer" models that wouldn't garnish all that high a return on the open market, similar to American Ahmish items still being made for local use and yet appearing in antique/folk art areas here in the USA.
Mike

Bill · 5th May 2005, 07:51 PM

not much of an answer for your question, but in Cashey's "the first voyage around the world", Pigafetta's account: in Cebu a cutlass was called a campilan. the warriors on Mactan fought mostly with sharpened bamboo spears & rocks, as Magellan retreated, he was rushed by the few warriors that carried campilans, but Pigafetta's report was that Magellan went down with a blow from a large "terciado", described as a scimtar, only larger. panabas? have seen mentioned that both campilan & panabas were used before the Spanish, as well that metal was so valuable it was seldom used for tools, almost always for weapons.

Federico · 11th May 2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

not much of an answer for your question, but in Cashey's "the first voyage around the world", Pigafetta's account: in Cebu a cutlass was called a campilan. the warriors on Mactan fought mostly with sharpened bamboo spears & rocks, as Magellan retreated, he was rushed by the few warriors that carried campilans, but Pigafetta's report was that Magellan went down with a blow from a large "terciado", described as a scimtar, only larger. panabas? have seen mentioned that both campilan & panabas were used before the Spanish, as well that metal was so valuable it was seldom used for tools, almost always for weapons.

Interesting, Ill have to re-look at the translation notes for my version of Pigafetta's account, because in my version it describes the natives as having metal tipped spears with bamboo shafts, and as posessing swords.

Also interesting is the account that metal was so valuable it was seldom used for tools. Where did you find that, as I have not heard it before? William Henry Scott, in his work dealing with 16th century Filipinos, Barangay, describes the locals as having very complex metal working skills, with metal work being abdundant and wide spread. So much so that when the Spanish arrive, they hire a local, Panday Pira, to make their cannon for them.

3rd May 2005, 04:37 AM	#1
eli Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon US Posts: 21	panabas Hi i just recently got this moro panabas off ebay. I dont know much about them And the seller didn't know much about this one. He did think the fittings were new but thats about all of his knowledge on it. So i would really like to know any thoughts you guys have on it. New, old, tourest piece what ever its fine with me. Just give any thoughts you have. All will be greatly appreciated. Heres the link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6526015614

3rd May 2005, 05:19 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,354	Recently made reproduction Eli: I think this one was made quite recently. There still seems to be some forging scale on the blade, usually a sign of little actual use. The simple brass ferrule is not traditional on large heavy panabas (usually iron rings on the heavy duty old ones) and that brass looks new, similar to other work coming out of Mindanao via Davao City. The wooden handle may have been turned on a lathe. All indications point to fairly recent construction. The crudely forged blade might suggest it was made as a tool. But the dimensions seem too large and the weight too heavy for a convenient, brush cutting tool. I would say this one was made to sell as a recent reproduction of a traditional panabas. There, I managed to not say the "t" word again. ian.

3rd May 2005, 01:11 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Can't say the age, but it seems to me these smaller, simpler, ones with the broader blade (especially in the base) are more the work ones? This is a vague and general impression; nothing solid; someone else can probably say more.

5th May 2005, 09:09 AM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Has anyone else, or Federico himself, for that matter, found any further information suggesting or confirming that the panabas itself is actually a weapon DERIVED from a similar appearing tool? Once the statement was presented, I found myself strongly in agreement with it, based primarilly upon intuition, I admit. While you're probably correct in the attribution of a piece made in the last 50 years or so, the fact that some fundamentalist Muslims consider attempted conversion a capitol offence along with the occasional "terrorist" act of a head in a bag (surprisingly often belonging to a missionary) would seem to indicate that some might still be being made "just in case". While rather grisly humor is hard to avoid, I suspect that this might be the actual case, particularly in "plainer" models that wouldn't garnish all that high a return on the open market, similar to American Ahmish items still being made for local use and yet appearing in antique/folk art areas here in the USA. Mike

5th May 2005, 07:51 PM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	not much of an answer for your question, but in Cashey's "the first voyage around the world", Pigafetta's account: in Cebu a cutlass was called a campilan. the warriors on Mactan fought mostly with sharpened bamboo spears & rocks, as Magellan retreated, he was rushed by the few warriors that carried campilans, but Pigafetta's report was that Magellan went down with a blow from a large "terciado", described as a scimtar, only larger. panabas? have seen mentioned that both campilan & panabas were used before the Spanish, as well that metal was so valuable it was seldom used for tools, almost always for weapons.