I say Africa, you say?

Tim Simmons · 16th October 2007, 09:53 PM

This is my latest thing, so new I will have to wait before I can make any comparisons to other African stiletto. I have a feeling it is African by style. It is not European? the total length out of the scabbard is 11.75 inches and a blade of 8 inches, these are the sellers measurements. So that would make the handle very small for a european knife. I paid a lot for this knife but as you can see the uncommon all steel scabbard and nice fit do have some appeal. I do not think the iron work on the handle knob and scabbard end are European?

katana · 16th October 2007, 10:49 PM

Hi Tim,
certainly has an African 'look', a cosh / dagger combination ? Do you know what shape the blade profile is (in cross section) Some of the pics on the listing seem to suggest a 'triangular' shape. If so could this be an old bayonet blade sheathed in a modified gun barrel ?? Nice !

Could this be Zulu.....has a knobkerrie look, the bayonets used in the Zulu wars were the 1876 Enfield triangular pattern, 25.25 in (63,5 cm) long. If a rifle barrel was used to make the scabbard, it could be rifled (I believe 7 grooved) or smoothbore ( the Zulus had a few muzzle-loading percussion smoothbore muskets at Isandlwana) All just a thought off the 'top of my head' but if this is the case, what a facinating piece of history.

dennee · 17th October 2007, 05:22 AM

It's funny how one tends to associate new things with other, familiar things. To me, the form looks like a Tibetan pen case--with a difference!

Tim Simmons · 17th October 2007, 08:13 AM

Good point it could look Asian too. Hopefully it will be here soon to inspect. It is also strange how that big pictures of an object taken a certain way can be not very clear.

I stuck my neck out on this.

Jim McDougall · 18th October 2007, 03:43 AM

Another one for Tim's 'Museum of Weapons Curiosa'!!

I really look forward to the stuff you come up with Tim! Fascinating.
I think Katana has a good idea on the bayonet blade, but this looks pretty worked down. I think in the direction of 'trench art' with many items fashioned out of spent ammunition casings, bayonets etc. The rifle barrel idea seems plausible too.
Possibly an officers baton? or swagger stick?

dennee · 18th October 2007, 04:41 AM

The attached photo is kinda what I had in mind in terms of a pen case. They are often highly decorated and/or pierced, but there are simpler ones. The link below is to a similarly shaped example---which can't be seen very well but is described as containing a single-edged knife.

http://www.artfact.com/catalog/viewL...tCode=Sjp3zSo1

16th October 2007, 09:53 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,812	I say Africa, you say? This is my latest thing, so new I will have to wait before I can make any comparisons to other African stiletto. I have a feeling it is African by style. It is not European? the total length out of the scabbard is 11.75 inches and a blade of 8 inches, these are the sellers measurements. So that would make the handle very small for a european knife. I paid a lot for this knife but as you can see the uncommon all steel scabbard and nice fit do have some appeal. I do not think the iron work on the handle knob and scabbard end are European?

16th October 2007, 10:49 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim, certainly has an African 'look', a cosh / dagger combination ? Do you know what shape the blade profile is (in cross section) Some of the pics on the listing seem to suggest a 'triangular' shape. If so could this be an old bayonet blade sheathed in a modified gun barrel ?? Nice ! Could this be Zulu.....has a knobkerrie look, the bayonets used in the Zulu wars were the 1876 Enfield triangular pattern, 25.25 in (63,5 cm) long. If a rifle barrel was used to make the scabbard, it could be rifled (I believe 7 grooved) or smoothbore ( the Zulus had a few muzzle-loading percussion smoothbore muskets at Isandlwana) All just a thought off the 'top of my head' but if this is the case, what a facinating piece of history. Last edited by katana; 16th October 2007 at 11:22 PM.

18th October 2007, 04:41 AM	#6
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	The attached photo is kinda what I had in mind in terms of a pen case. They are often highly decorated and/or pierced, but there are simpler ones. The link below is to a similarly shaped example---which can't be seen very well but is described as containing a single-edged knife. http://www.artfact.com/catalog/viewL...tCode=Sjp3zSo1 Attached Images

17th October 2007, 05:22 AM	#3
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	It's funny how one tends to associate new things with other, familiar things. To me, the form looks like a Tibetan pen case--with a difference!

17th October 2007, 08:13 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,812	Good point it could look Asian too. Hopefully it will be here soon to inspect. It is also strange how that big pictures of an object taken a certain way can be not very clear. I stuck my neck out on this.

18th October 2007, 03:43 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,971	Another one for Tim's 'Museum of Weapons Curiosa'!! I really look forward to the stuff you come up with Tim! Fascinating. I think Katana has a good idea on the bayonet blade, but this looks pretty worked down. I think in the direction of 'trench art' with many items fashioned out of spent ammunition casings, bayonets etc. The rifle barrel idea seems plausible too. Possibly an officers baton? or swagger stick?