Pamor question

Jeff Pringle · 7th June 2007, 06:49 AM

What would you call a pamor that looked like this:

Rick · 7th June 2007, 01:05 PM

Could we see the entire blade Jeff ?

cahaya · 7th June 2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Pringle

What would you call a pamor that looked like this:

Hai...
the pamor for me: is more like ganggeng kanyut

cahaya

Raden Usman Djogja · 7th June 2007, 10:21 PM

Is that a keris? Jeff, please show it completely.

Rick · 8th June 2007, 02:44 AM

The spots on the filed edge are something new to me.

Where's the core?
Is this blade all pamor?

Jeff Pringle · 8th June 2007, 03:00 PM

Sorry for the confusion, no this in not a keris, but a test I did to see how a specific keris pamor is created. The spots along the edge are a transient phenomenon, related to air bubbles sticking to the blade in the quench, and should be ignored, if possible. Only the center of the blade is patterned.
I don’t know about you guys, but when I see a pamor one of the things I start to do is try to figure out the sequence of forging operations that lead to the various patterns, and that discussion of Walang Sinudhuk ( http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4577 ) a couple weeks ago got me wondering about it and a couple closely related pamor - at least, closely related in terms of how Tammens drew them – were created. The discussion brought up various drawings that were more or less clear from a “finding out the process” perspective, but two very different methods are clearly implicated, one in the first couple drawings and the photo I found (which look very different, but which all imply a particular metal manipulation), and a second in the rest. Ganggeng kanyut looks as if it was made by a different process as well, so if that is what this pattern is saying, I’m way outside the ballpark, in my estimation of how the pamor metal gets manipulated to create walang sinudhuk. I’m also curious about how walang sinudhuk and dadung muntir are related, since they should both be pamor over a core steel, correct? How are they different, in your opinion, and/or which references give accurate depictions of them?

But I think I muddied the waters by using fewer layers, and doing more cross-wise forging than you’d typically get in a keris, so the pattern is stretched in a way that makes it look less like the target pattern I was going for.

Marcokeris · 9th June 2007, 05:46 PM

Jeff
your pamor is like this western damasc (the picture is from the spectacular book damascus steel by M. Sachse)

7th June 2007, 06:49 AM	#1
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Pamor question What would you call a pamor that looked like this: Attached Images

8th June 2007, 03:00 PM	#6
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Sorry for the confusion, no this in not a keris, but a test I did to see how a specific keris pamor is created. The spots along the edge are a transient phenomenon, related to air bubbles sticking to the blade in the quench, and should be ignored, if possible. Only the center of the blade is patterned. I don’t know about you guys, but when I see a pamor one of the things I start to do is try to figure out the sequence of forging operations that lead to the various patterns, and that discussion of Walang Sinudhuk ( http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4577 ) a couple weeks ago got me wondering about it and a couple closely related pamor - at least, closely related in terms of how Tammens drew them – were created. The discussion brought up various drawings that were more or less clear from a “finding out the process” perspective, but two very different methods are clearly implicated, one in the first couple drawings and the photo I found (which look very different, but which all imply a particular metal manipulation), and a second in the rest. Ganggeng kanyut looks as if it was made by a different process as well, so if that is what this pattern is saying, I’m way outside the ballpark, in my estimation of how the pamor metal gets manipulated to create walang sinudhuk. I’m also curious about how walang sinudhuk and dadung muntir are related, since they should both be pamor over a core steel, correct? How are they different, in your opinion, and/or which references give accurate depictions of them? But I think I muddied the waters by using fewer layers, and doing more cross-wise forging than you’d typically get in a keris, so the pattern is stretched in a way that makes it look less like the target pattern I was going for. Attached Images

9th June 2007, 05:46 PM	#7
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Jeff your pamor is like this western damasc (the picture is from the spectacular book damascus steel by M. Sachse) Attached Images

7th June 2007, 01:05 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,271	Could we see the entire blade Jeff ?

7th June 2007, 10:21 PM	#4
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Is that a keris? Jeff, please show it completely.

8th June 2007, 02:44 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,271	The spots on the filed edge are something new to me. Where's the core? Is this blade all pamor?