Two small daggers for comment/identification

Sajen · 26th January 2025, 05:15 PM

Hello dear members,

I have a liking for small daggers and knives, so both daggers come to me by accident!

I hope that someone would be able to tell me more about these, where from (the blades are not marked), which time frame and which handle material.
I don't think that the handle material is ivory of some sort like the seller thought, I guess it's faux ivory of some sort so the age would be early 20th century, just my guess.

The one with the big handle is 23,7 cm long with a blade from 12,4 cm.
the one with the flat handle is 22,7 cm long with a blade from 12,2 cm.

Sajen · 26th January 2025, 05:19 PM

Here are pictures from the one with the big handle.

Sajen · 26th January 2025, 05:24 PM

And here are some pictures from the one with the rather flat handle.
It seems that the blade was once rusted and someone polished it out later.

M ELEY · 27th January 2025, 03:44 PM

Hmmm. Well, these are in the style of mid to late 19th c. belt knives (some call them 'boot knives' as they were often hidden in a boot for quick self defense). These were popular in the U.S. with gamblers and saloon girls (soiled doves), who might wear them in a garder for quick access. The older types were often made in Sheffiled and sold here. Hilt materials for those types were usually ivory. Yours appear a little later (?), perhaps early 20th, but still in the time frame of 'old Western'. Hilt material could be Bakelite, an early plastic from c. 1900. I'm no expert on these, so let's leave room for someone to correct me!

Sajen · 27th January 2025, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Hmmm. Well, these are in the style of mid to late 19th c. belt knives (some call them 'boot knives' as they were often hidden in a boot for quick self defense). These were popular in the U.S. with gamblers and saloon girls (soiled doves), who might wear them in a garder for quick access. The older types were often made in Sheffiled and sold here. Hilt materials for those types were usually ivory. Yours appear a little later (?), perhaps early 20th, but still in the time frame of 'old Western'. Hilt material could be Bakelite, an early plastic from c. 1900. I'm no expert on these, so let's leave room for someone to correct me!

Thank you very much for your comments!

The one with the flat handle could be a garder dagger and I've seen similar ones before. So far I know these daggers have been common in Europe also, not only in the States. The other one with the bigger handle could be a gambler's dagger, but again, this is only my humble guess.

Best regards,
Detlef

M ELEY · 28th January 2025, 04:55 PM

Hello Sajan and I forgot to thank you for posting these. You are absolutely right that these types also saw service in Europe. Besides the American Southwest, there is also the Canadain frontier (Klondike gold rush, anybody?). There is a test you can do for Bakelite, where you put a part of the hilt in hot water and it produces a certain smell? I'll have to look it up again!

26th January 2025, 05:15 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Two small daggers for comment/identification Hello dear members, I have a liking for small daggers and knives, so both daggers come to me by accident! I hope that someone would be able to tell me more about these, where from (the blades are not marked), which time frame and which handle material. I don't think that the handle material is ivory of some sort like the seller thought, I guess it's faux ivory of some sort so the age would be early 20th century, just my guess. The one with the big handle is 23,7 cm long with a blade from 12,4 cm. the one with the flat handle is 22,7 cm long with a blade from 12,2 cm. Attached Images

26th January 2025, 05:19 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	pics from the first dagger Here are pictures from the one with the big handle. Attached Images

26th January 2025, 05:24 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	And here are some pictures from the one with the rather flat handle. It seems that the blade was once rusted and someone polished it out later. Attached Images

27th January 2025, 03:44 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hmmm. Well, these are in the style of mid to late 19th c. belt knives (some call them 'boot knives' as they were often hidden in a boot for quick self defense). These were popular in the U.S. with gamblers and saloon girls (soiled doves), who might wear them in a garder for quick access. The older types were often made in Sheffiled and sold here. Hilt materials for those types were usually ivory. Yours appear a little later (?), perhaps early 20th, but still in the time frame of 'old Western'. Hilt material could be Bakelite, an early plastic from c. 1900. I'm no expert on these, so let's leave room for someone to correct me!

28th January 2025, 04:55 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hello Sajan and I forgot to thank you for posting these. You are absolutely right that these types also saw service in Europe. Besides the American Southwest, there is also the Canadain frontier (Klondike gold rush, anybody?). There is a test you can do for Bakelite, where you put a part of the hilt in hot water and it produces a certain smell? I'll have to look it up again!