Blades travelled a long way

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd August 2006, 06:07 PM

In ‘Early Medieval Islamic Arms and Armour’ by David Nicolle I found this.
He is writing that the imported swords from Andalusia, China and India are of a better quality than the ones from Egypt, and then he goes on: "Swords also entered Islam from the north, via the Virangian traders of Scandinavia. Ibn Hurdadba in the second half of the 9th century mentions such traders selling swords from the Rhinland in the markets of both Baghdad and Constantinople. Half a century later another writer, Ibn Fadlan in 921/922 AD, wrote to the Halif Muqtadir concerning large and 'damascened' Varangian blades".

Somewhere else he writes that the blades were straight, and one or double edged.

It is not often we hear about blade trade north south.

Rivkin · 2nd August 2006, 06:59 PM

If my memory does not betray me, this Ibn Fadlan was a spy sent by arabs to the north, through the land of Khazars to the land of vikings (northern Russia). He left one of the best descriptions of viking's customs, especially a highly grafic of that of a viking burial.

On the other hand vikings were massively employed by Byzantine and even Georgian royalty, primeraly in their war against arabs; later Osman army initially consisted of a very large number of western and armenian mercenary troops. One can also find a lot of evidence of mamluks using western made swords (starting with military manuals).

I would greatly recommend another book by David Nicolle - arms and armour of the crusading era, Volume II (the east) - truly fantastic collection of images.

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd August 2006, 10:33 PM

Thank you Rivkin for your information on the spy. It is interesting that they, at that time, did send spies that far away to gather information’s. In the Sofia Mosque in Istanbul you can still see the runes the Vikings made ‘visiting’ the town.

RobT · 3rd August 2006, 03:33 AM

Hi All,
There is a work of fiction by Michael Creighton that has Ibn Fadlin as its main character. The story is about the spy mission. Originally called "The Eaters of the Dead", it has been reprinted as "The 13th Warrior". I thought it was pretty good.
Sincerely,
RobT

Rivkin · 3rd August 2006, 06:01 AM

Thirteenth warrior is extremely loosely based on the mission. In the time the difference between trader, diplomat and spy was somewhat shady; he indeed was sent mostly to gather the information. However, large arab settlements have beeen established as far north as Tbilisi; Caucasus was involved in a 300 year long war between arab armies, khazars, alans and local caucasians up until the arrival of seljuks. It has made all the sence to them to investigate the northern territories, even though Khazars were already declining at this point.

2nd August 2006, 06:07 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Blades travelled a long way In ‘Early Medieval Islamic Arms and Armour’ by David Nicolle I found this. He is writing that the imported swords from Andalusia, China and India are of a better quality than the ones from Egypt, and then he goes on: "Swords also entered Islam from the north, via the Virangian traders of Scandinavia. Ibn Hurdadba in the second half of the 9th century mentions such traders selling swords from the Rhinland in the markets of both Baghdad and Constantinople. Half a century later another writer, Ibn Fadlan in 921/922 AD, wrote to the Halif Muqtadir concerning large and 'damascened' Varangian blades". Somewhere else he writes that the blades were straight, and one or double edged. It is not often we hear about blade trade north south.

3rd August 2006, 03:33 AM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 506	The 13th Warrior Hi All, There is a work of fiction by Michael Creighton that has Ibn Fadlin as its main character. The story is about the spy mission. Originally called "The Eaters of the Dead", it has been reprinted as "The 13th Warrior". I thought it was pretty good. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 3rd August 2006 at 03:37 AM. Reason: additional info

2nd August 2006, 06:59 PM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	If my memory does not betray me, this Ibn Fadlan was a spy sent by arabs to the north, through the land of Khazars to the land of vikings (northern Russia). He left one of the best descriptions of viking's customs, especially a highly grafic of that of a viking burial. On the other hand vikings were massively employed by Byzantine and even Georgian royalty, primeraly in their war against arabs; later Osman army initially consisted of a very large number of western and armenian mercenary troops. One can also find a lot of evidence of mamluks using western made swords (starting with military manuals). I would greatly recommend another book by David Nicolle - arms and armour of the crusading era, Volume II (the east) - truly fantastic collection of images.

2nd August 2006, 10:33 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you Rivkin for your information on the spy. It is interesting that they, at that time, did send spies that far away to gather information’s. In the Sofia Mosque in Istanbul you can still see the runes the Vikings made ‘visiting’ the town.

3rd August 2006, 06:01 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Thirteenth warrior is extremely loosely based on the mission. In the time the difference between trader, diplomat and spy was somewhat shady; he indeed was sent mostly to gather the information. However, large arab settlements have beeen established as far north as Tbilisi; Caucasus was involved in a 300 year long war between arab armies, khazars, alans and local caucasians up until the arrival of seljuks. It has made all the sence to them to investigate the northern territories, even though Khazars were already declining at this point.