Comments, please on Turkish Knife, made from a file

katana · 24th June 2006, 11:08 AM

I have posted this knife before, to ask if it had a specific name.

Now that I've received it, I've more questions than answers

I will assume that the blade is a reworked file, sharp and has a brass and silver (?) detailing. I know there have been a few 'file knives' posted, is this very common? Is it a better grade of steel compared to locally available steel.
Basically, any info on origin, function, age or general comments, gratefully received, thankyou.

ariel · 24th June 2006, 01:46 PM

The more I look at it, the more it reminds me of a Flyssa: the brass bolster, the carved wooden scabbard, the pommel etc.

katana · 24th June 2006, 02:09 PM

Thanks for your comments Ariel. I foolishly forgot the dimensions

Blade to bolster is 17.5cm (7'')
Blade width (at bolster) is 3cms (1 3/8 '')
overall length is approx. 29cm ( 11 1/2 '')

Blade is 4.5mm thick (spine just after bolster) and has distal taper, balance point is at mid point of the bolster. Looks as if the silver banding (on the scabbard) may have had some Arabic type script which is all but polished out

Rick · 24th June 2006, 04:14 PM

How about a picture of the entire piece both in and out of its scabbard .
I think it'll help get an idea of the "look" to help determine origin .
I'm leaning toward a Bichaq type of style .

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2006, 05:24 PM

Could it be a Kyhber knife or type of knife from areas where they are used? The hooked bit on the handle is seen on Indo/Pak/Afghan knives. The general form is all very similar, I think just a little more than North African. Then again perhaps not.

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2006, 06:21 PM

Been looking in the archive. This is from the Philippines surley? the wire binding is on many PI knives, also the handle form is very much like PI pieces.

katana · 24th June 2006, 06:27 PM

Here are pictures of the overall piece. These pictures give the impression that the scabbard is material covered, however it is lightly carved wood, which appears to be some sort of mahogany (close grained). The metal is silver (when tarnished parts wiped with clean white tissue, dark (almost black)
residue is left on it.

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2006, 06:37 PM

Perhaps it is not from PI

and does come from areas around Turkey. The use of a file and of silver on the scabbard suggest it is from an area where good steel to fashion new objects was at least hard to come by.

katana · 24th June 2006, 06:52 PM

This is seems strange that a file is forged for the blade and yet the knife is well made, as is the sheath.
It seems that the craftsmen were available but quality steel was not (at least when this knife was made). Unless there was a shortage of steel at that time, perhaps, due to certain factors say, war, trade embargo etc.
This knife is a bit of a puzzle

Edited addition,
I didn't see your last post Tim until I posted the above.....it seems that we are drawing similar conclusions

TVV · 24th June 2006, 07:40 PM

I am with Ariel on this one as far as there is obvious North African influence on this dagger. Look at the zig-zag motif on the scabbard for example.

katana · 24th June 2006, 08:52 PM

When I first saw this knife I was thinking 'Flysa, North Africa with Arabic influences (silver work).
Now I've got the knife I'm not so sure it is North African at all. I can see why Tim saw P.I. as a possible source, I thought the silver work had similar designs to some of the Dha's I've seen on this forum. But the file blade !!! have knives from Africa been found to made from files. Obviously the Africans are very adept to using what they have available, but, I mean, for the better quality weapons would they have used a file?

If the knife is North African, can I assume that the silver work would only be found with a 'quality' knife?

Rick · 24th June 2006, 09:09 PM

Katana , files are often used for knife blades ; the steel is quite hard .
The zig zag motif is fairly generic ; the pommel looks like it is slightly eared .
I've got only guesses to offer here ; that rosette on the pommel looks familiar but I can't place it .

24th June 2006, 11:08 AM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Comments, please on Turkish Knife, made from a file I have posted this knife before, to ask if it had a specific name. Now that I've received it, I've more questions than answers I will assume that the blade is a reworked file, sharp and has a brass and silver (?) detailing. I know there have been a few 'file knives' posted, is this very common? Is it a better grade of steel compared to locally available steel. Basically, any info on origin, function, age or general comments, gratefully received, thankyou. Attached Images

24th June 2006, 06:27 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Here are pictures of the overall piece. These pictures give the impression that the scabbard is material covered, however it is lightly carved wood, which appears to be some sort of mahogany (close grained). The metal is silver (when tarnished parts wiped with clean white tissue, dark (almost black) residue is left on it. Attached Images

24th June 2006, 01:46 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The more I look at it, the more it reminds me of a Flyssa: the brass bolster, the carved wooden scabbard, the pommel etc.

24th June 2006, 02:09 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks for your comments Ariel. I foolishly forgot the dimensions Blade to bolster is 17.5cm (7'') Blade width (at bolster) is 3cms (1 3/8 '') overall length is approx. 29cm ( 11 1/2 '') Blade is 4.5mm thick (spine just after bolster) and has distal taper, balance point is at mid point of the bolster. Looks as if the silver banding (on the scabbard) may have had some Arabic type script which is all but polished out

24th June 2006, 04:14 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,301	How about a picture of the entire piece both in and out of its scabbard . I think it'll help get an idea of the "look" to help determine origin . I'm leaning toward a Bichaq type of style .

24th June 2006, 05:24 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,813	Could it be a Kyhber knife or type of knife from areas where they are used? The hooked bit on the handle is seen on Indo/Pak/Afghan knives. The general form is all very similar, I think just a little more than North African. Then again perhaps not.

24th June 2006, 06:21 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,813	Been looking in the archive. This is from the Philippines surley? the wire binding is on many PI knives, also the handle form is very much like PI pieces.

24th June 2006, 06:37 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,813	Perhaps it is not from PI and does come from areas around Turkey. The use of a file and of silver on the scabbard suggest it is from an area where good steel to fashion new objects was at least hard to come by.

24th June 2006, 06:52 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	This is seems strange that a file is forged for the blade and yet the knife is well made, as is the sheath. It seems that the craftsmen were available but quality steel was not (at least when this knife was made). Unless there was a shortage of steel at that time, perhaps, due to certain factors say, war, trade embargo etc. This knife is a bit of a puzzle Edited addition, I didn't see your last post Tim until I posted the above.....it seems that we are drawing similar conclusions

24th June 2006, 07:40 PM	#10
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,645	I am with Ariel on this one as far as there is obvious North African influence on this dagger. Look at the zig-zag motif on the scabbard for example.

24th June 2006, 08:52 PM	#11
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	When I first saw this knife I was thinking 'Flysa, North Africa with Arabic influences (silver work). Now I've got the knife I'm not so sure it is North African at all. I can see why Tim saw P.I. as a possible source, I thought the silver work had similar designs to some of the Dha's I've seen on this forum. But the file blade !!! have knives from Africa been found to made from files. Obviously the Africans are very adept to using what they have available, but, I mean, for the better quality weapons would they have used a file? If the knife is North African, can I assume that the silver work would only be found with a 'quality' knife?

24th June 2006, 09:09 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,301	Katana , files are often used for knife blades ; the steel is quite hard . The zig zag motif is fairly generic ; the pommel looks like it is slightly eared . I've got only guesses to offer here ; that rosette on the pommel looks familiar but I can't place it .