Identifying Pamor for a First Keris

QuisUtDeus · 10th May 2019, 07:53 AM

Hello! I've just purchased my first keris. Can anyone tell me what the pamor is and it's magical meaning? I've looked through examples of pamors and to my eyes it looks like it could be one of three. Are there any signs that this is a pre-WWII blade? I want one that was smithed with rituals.

I slept with the keris under my pillow to perform the 'dream test'. No bad dreams, but the scabbard broke where it was glued. There isn't anything wrong with the hilt but it fits my hand very poorly. The mendak is really beat up.

If the blade is worthwhile I'll seek high quality attachments, but if it is a mediocre blade I'll look for mediocre replacements. I really like this blade. It has a strong aura about it. I really dig the pamor. But I don't want to 'overdress' it.

Attached are pictures of the seller's photos. The keris looks alright in them. It was was filthy when I received it, though. I didn't take photos of the dirty keris. I put some time in tonight to clean the blade. I've still got a while to go but much of the gunk is gone. Attached are some 'after' photos of my first cleaning. Parts of the blade have 'milky' appearance. There is some kind of translucent yellow/green.

Is my first keris an ok first buy? And what are the purported magical attributes? Any help would be wonderful. Book references and links are very welcome. I might make the keris a new hobby!

David · 10th May 2019, 05:36 PM

Welcome to the forum QuisUtDeus. Ambition tag , unless your actual name happens to be Michael.

Just a heads up...all new members are in moderated status at first. That means that your post won't appear until approved by a moderator. I won't also post your other thread since we don't want 2 separate threads going on the same keris, but since you added different information i will copy & paste the text on that other one to here.

Hello, all! I am new to this forum and to the blade hobby. I've picked up a keris from a property liquidation. I can't identify the blade's pamor. I'm hoping it is a pre-WWII piece. I want a blade created with rituals.

The handle is mediocre. The mendak is bent up. The scabbard is very poor. I slept with the keris under my pillow for the 'dream test'. No bad dreams, but the scabbard top snapped off.

The blade, itself, is very cool, though! I've seen very few pamors I like better. It carries a strong energy. If it is a worthwhile blade I will upgrade the attachments.

I think the blade is luk 15. Can anyone identify the pamor and its magic properties? Also, any signs the work is pre-WWII?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/6462448...d_out_detail=1

David · 10th May 2019, 06:17 PM

I will try to answer some of your questions.
Firstly, this keris is presented in Balinese dress, but i am having trouble seeing it as a true Balinese blade. The greneng on the gonjo is cut rather poorly for a Bali keris and the gonjo itself does not look right and the sogokan do not seem to be nearly cut deep enough for Balinese standards. I believe the pamor is the standard Beras Wutah - scattered rice grain, but the blade certainly hasn't been treated in the typical Balinese manner of keeping the surface polished smooth. It is also a bit shorter than most Balinese keris of this era. I suppose that a Lombok origin is possible and i have seen Lombok keris in this particular sheath kekandikan style before, but i really can't be sure. I am inclined to think the blade may have a Maduran origin. Despite the obvious wear on this blade it appears more contemporary to my eye than older.
If you are concerned about "over dressing" this blade i personally would not seek any new components for this ensemble. The pelet timoho wood that is used is considered quite desirable and frankly this keris blade is fairly mediocre as Bali style blades go and does not require fancier dress. As for the handle, it isn't really mediocre per se, it is a very common Balinese bondalan form and i see no reason to change it. That it does not fit well in your hand should not make it unsuitable.
If this were mine i would cleanly repair the now broken sheath, clean up the uwer (mendak is a Javanese term) and re-stain if possible after fully cleaning the blade. A re-stain with warangan will do wonders for making theirs blade more attractive IMHO.
All that said, i would not consider this a "bad" first keris. I think most of us probably faired far worse on our first outing. What is always most important about any keris is that you like it. And just a warning...they are addictive! LOL!

Jean · 10th May 2019, 09:52 PM

This is a quite decent kris IMO and it looks to have some age, including the blade (see the rust between the gonjo and the base of the blade). The Lombok origin seems a fair assumption, the blade has 15 luks indeed and the pamor pattern is a standard one, may be identified as Beras Wutah/ Ilining Warih according to the Neka book. Is the blade fitting neatly into the scabbard? Like David I would change nothing to it except cleaning the blade and uwer, and repairing the scabbard if needed. What is the blade length?
Regards

QuisUtDeus · 10th May 2019, 09:54 PM

Thank you! My name's not Michael, but St. Michael is one reason I've entered the keris community. A few effigies of him wield a keris. I've actually found a reason for this but it might be too far afield to post in the forum. I do think many of you would find it interesting, though. The reason begins with the keris, then delves into architecture, ethnography, astronomy, and ultimately eschatology. It gets pretty far out.

I'll get back to the subject.

I'm already picking up new parts. I'll save them for a nicer blade. I'll take pictures of the scabbard break for repair advice when I'm off work. It looks to me like carpenter's glue will work. You've given me a lot of historical references to go through. I appreciate it! Where do I get the staining compound? I may not use it, though. The milky look reminds me of a Fremen crysknife from Frank Herbert's 'Dune': a very influential book in my life.

The hilt only fits three of my fingers and my pinky rests on the pommel -- a really bad grip. I wouldn't want to fight with it. What sort of pommeled hilts give an extra few centimeters? Or what style hilts have no pommel?

I'm happy to get addicted to kerises! My audio and watch hobbies have cost a serious grip. The keris hobby is much more affordable. If it turns out this keris has meteorite I will be one happy dude. I read that an odd green color showing in the sunlight is a sign of meteorite. I'll have a good idea when the blade is thoroughly clean.

Thank you very much! I'm already looking forward to a new keris!

QuisUtDeus · 10th May 2019, 11:28 PM

The blade doesn't fit nicely into the scabbard. The angle of the blade base is too acute. As was mentioned earlier, the blade is short and the scabbard too long. It's not a bad fit, but it does bother me a little.

I'm happy it's a decent blade! Thanks for the identification. I'll keep all the parts as you've all suggested but I will be on the look-out for better fitting gear. The mendak really has to go, it's too warped.

Thanks for your help!

QuisUtDeus · 10th May 2019, 11:37 PM

Blade length was around 14.5 cm I think. I'm at work, can't check till I get home.

It does have a real aura about it. I've got a few modern blades (no kerises) and the steel is just steel. There's no kind of field about it. Is this field normal for a keris? Any members out there into mystic stuff like myself?

10th May 2019, 07:53 AM	#1
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	Identifying Pamor for a First Keris Hello! I've just purchased my first keris. Can anyone tell me what the pamor is and it's magical meaning? I've looked through examples of pamors and to my eyes it looks like it could be one of three. Are there any signs that this is a pre-WWII blade? I want one that was smithed with rituals. I slept with the keris under my pillow to perform the 'dream test'. No bad dreams, but the scabbard broke where it was glued. There isn't anything wrong with the hilt but it fits my hand very poorly. The mendak is really beat up. If the blade is worthwhile I'll seek high quality attachments, but if it is a mediocre blade I'll look for mediocre replacements. I really like this blade. It has a strong aura about it. I really dig the pamor. But I don't want to 'overdress' it. Attached are pictures of the seller's photos. The keris looks alright in them. It was was filthy when I received it, though. I didn't take photos of the dirty keris. I put some time in tonight to clean the blade. I've still got a while to go but much of the gunk is gone. Attached are some 'after' photos of my first cleaning. Parts of the blade have 'milky' appearance. There is some kind of translucent yellow/green. Is my first keris an ok first buy? And what are the purported magical attributes? Any help would be wonderful. Book references and links are very welcome. I might make the keris a new hobby! Attached Images

10th May 2019, 05:36 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,165	Welcome to the forum QuisUtDeus. Ambition tag , unless your actual name happens to be Michael. Just a heads up...all new members are in moderated status at first. That means that your post won't appear until approved by a moderator. I won't also post your other thread since we don't want 2 separate threads going on the same keris, but since you added different information i will copy & paste the text on that other one to here. Hello, all! I am new to this forum and to the blade hobby. I've picked up a keris from a property liquidation. I can't identify the blade's pamor. I'm hoping it is a pre-WWII piece. I want a blade created with rituals. The handle is mediocre. The mendak is bent up. The scabbard is very poor. I slept with the keris under my pillow for the 'dream test'. No bad dreams, but the scabbard top snapped off. The blade, itself, is very cool, though! I've seen very few pamors I like better. It carries a strong energy. If it is a worthwhile blade I will upgrade the attachments. I think the blade is luk 15. Can anyone identify the pamor and its magic properties? Also, any signs the work is pre-WWII? https://www.etsy.com/listing/6462448...d_out_detail=1

10th May 2019, 06:17 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,165	I will try to answer some of your questions. Firstly, this keris is presented in Balinese dress, but i am having trouble seeing it as a true Balinese blade. The greneng on the gonjo is cut rather poorly for a Bali keris and the gonjo itself does not look right and the sogokan do not seem to be nearly cut deep enough for Balinese standards. I believe the pamor is the standard Beras Wutah - scattered rice grain, but the blade certainly hasn't been treated in the typical Balinese manner of keeping the surface polished smooth. It is also a bit shorter than most Balinese keris of this era. I suppose that a Lombok origin is possible and i have seen Lombok keris in this particular sheath kekandikan style before, but i really can't be sure. I am inclined to think the blade may have a Maduran origin. Despite the obvious wear on this blade it appears more contemporary to my eye than older. If you are concerned about "over dressing" this blade i personally would not seek any new components for this ensemble. The pelet timoho wood that is used is considered quite desirable and frankly this keris blade is fairly mediocre as Bali style blades go and does not require fancier dress. As for the handle, it isn't really mediocre per se, it is a very common Balinese bondalan form and i see no reason to change it. That it does not fit well in your hand should not make it unsuitable. If this were mine i would cleanly repair the now broken sheath, clean up the uwer (mendak is a Javanese term) and re-stain if possible after fully cleaning the blade. A re-stain with warangan will do wonders for making theirs blade more attractive IMHO. All that said, i would not consider this a "bad" first keris. I think most of us probably faired far worse on our first outing. What is always most important about any keris is that you like it. And just a warning...they are addictive! LOL!

10th May 2019, 09:52 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This is a quite decent kris IMO and it looks to have some age, including the blade (see the rust between the gonjo and the base of the blade). The Lombok origin seems a fair assumption, the blade has 15 luks indeed and the pamor pattern is a standard one, may be identified as Beras Wutah/ Ilining Warih according to the Neka book. Is the blade fitting neatly into the scabbard? Like David I would change nothing to it except cleaning the blade and uwer, and repairing the scabbard if needed. What is the blade length? Regards

10th May 2019, 09:54 PM	#5
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	Thank you! My name's not Michael, but St. Michael is one reason I've entered the keris community. A few effigies of him wield a keris. I've actually found a reason for this but it might be too far afield to post in the forum. I do think many of you would find it interesting, though. The reason begins with the keris, then delves into architecture, ethnography, astronomy, and ultimately eschatology. It gets pretty far out. I'll get back to the subject. I'm already picking up new parts. I'll save them for a nicer blade. I'll take pictures of the scabbard break for repair advice when I'm off work. It looks to me like carpenter's glue will work. You've given me a lot of historical references to go through. I appreciate it! Where do I get the staining compound? I may not use it, though. The milky look reminds me of a Fremen crysknife from Frank Herbert's 'Dune': a very influential book in my life. The hilt only fits three of my fingers and my pinky rests on the pommel -- a really bad grip. I wouldn't want to fight with it. What sort of pommeled hilts give an extra few centimeters? Or what style hilts have no pommel? I'm happy to get addicted to kerises! My audio and watch hobbies have cost a serious grip. The keris hobby is much more affordable. If it turns out this keris has meteorite I will be one happy dude. I read that an odd green color showing in the sunlight is a sign of meteorite. I'll have a good idea when the blade is thoroughly clean. Thank you very much! I'm already looking forward to a new keris!

10th May 2019, 11:28 PM	#6
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	The blade doesn't fit nicely into the scabbard. The angle of the blade base is too acute. As was mentioned earlier, the blade is short and the scabbard too long. It's not a bad fit, but it does bother me a little. I'm happy it's a decent blade! Thanks for the identification. I'll keep all the parts as you've all suggested but I will be on the look-out for better fitting gear. The mendak really has to go, it's too warped. Thanks for your help!

10th May 2019, 11:37 PM	#7
QuisUtDeus Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 30	Blade length was around 14.5 cm I think. I'm at work, can't check till I get home. It does have a real aura about it. I've got a few modern blades (no kerises) and the steel is just steel. There's no kind of field about it. Is this field normal for a keris? Any members out there into mystic stuff like myself?