Khanda,what is it?

William.m · 20th May 2006, 07:38 PM

Hello everybody, long time lurker... rare poster.

I have here a Khanda that I bought today at a local antique shop. I know very little about this sword except that that the basket-hilt makes it somewhat of a rarity from what I have read on this forum.

Here are some pictures, and thanks in advance for any info.

Rick · 20th May 2006, 07:42 PM

Hi William ,
Is that a downward curve I see in the blade ?
Or is it an optical delusion ?

William.m · 20th May 2006, 07:45 PM

Haha, it has a very slight inwards curved blade. It is not as much as you think as maybe my photo is a bit off im not sure why it looks so curved!!

I can get some more pictures if you would like.

Regards,

Will

Rick · 20th May 2006, 07:47 PM

More pictures are always useful .

William.m · 20th May 2006, 08:16 PM

Alrighty, have a reduced size picture here so that you can see the inward curve.
Also there is a closeup of the hilt.

ariel · 20th May 2006, 11:23 PM

My understanding that Khanda usually has re-inforcing plates on both edges, so that the upper one remains sharp for ! 1/3 and the lower one for !2/3-3/4 of the length. I looked at gatka videos where they use Khanda and the fencer kept his left hand on the back side of the blade, directing the sword.
This one is , IMHO, in Sowth Indian style (pierced guard) and the entire style of the guard is of a transition between Old Indian and basket styles. I would guess 17-18th century.
The blade... Well, it depens if one wants to call it a Patissa or a Sossun Pata (because of the downward curvature). I would not be surprised if it was wootz.
My 5 cents worth....

Rick · 20th May 2006, 11:23 PM

Stone shows a similar piece with a slightly downcurved blade . It looks also like the blade has been fairly vigorously cleaned ; regardless of that I like it !
Antique shop find ; boot sale ?
The hilt is quite nice .

Tim Simmons · 21st May 2006, 08:07 PM

I was looking at a very nice Indian talwar with a wootz blade before I bought the Kaskara, There is something about the combination of good cloth scabbard and newish blade and an old not original handle that puts me off the money asked for some of these things which could just be paranoia.

There is no reason why this is not a weapon put together in the late 19th century for display purposes, as the use of such weapons became more anachronistic. The Indian Army was I believe in some ways better equipped than the regular British army certainly the Indian Army pattern sabres seem a lot better than those of the home army.

Jens Nordlunde · 21st May 2006, 09:30 PM

Ariel, that you have an old tulwar with faint spurs of reinforcement does not proof anything, when it comes to this sword – tulwars did not, normally as far as I know have reinforcements.

Tim, the scabbards is so far of ‘no’ interest, and your postulation 'that there is no reason why this is not a weapon put together in the late 19th century for display purposes, as the use of such weapons became more anachronistic', is only a postulate.

ariel · 21st May 2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Ariel, that you have an old tulwar with faint spurs of reinforcement does not proof anything, when it comes to this sword – tulwars did not, normally as far as I know have reinforcements.

Tim, the scabbards is so far of ‘no’ interest, and your postulation 'that there is no reason why this is not a weapon put together in the late 19th century for display purposes, as the use of such weapons became more anachronistic', is only a postulate.

Jens,
I know tulwars do not have reinforcements. But a tulwar's blade with a hole and an imprint must have been a part of a sword with reinforcements at some time in its career. That's all.
Proves only one thing: not every remount is a proof of recent "forgery". But we have known it before....

William.m · 21st May 2006, 10:24 PM

Hi guys,

Okay firstly in my opinion I believe that this is indeed an old blade, but has been recently buffed and sharpened. It is quite obvious that the blade has been sharpened and buffed while the blade was still attached to the hilt. This is because you can see where the polish stops just above the guard, and also the sharpening of the blade is very different when you get down to the guard where the style is different.

Also at the bottom of the blade the metal has a dark patina. Secondly the fuller is very shallow and dissipears in some areas, making me belive that the blade was overpolished even more. Adding to this, I can see the two cresent design at least six times on the blade, although one some it is very faint as too much metal has been removed. If you want I can put up some pictures of this.

In answer to a question, the cresent designs are all up near the top of the blade. In the first picture you can see it if you look carefully.

Anyways tomorrow if the weather is good I will give the blade a light acid wash, though there is no need to worry as I have done this before.

Thanks for all the info so far, keep them posts coming in !

Regards,
will

William.m · 22nd May 2006, 11:48 AM

Ladies and Gents, we have Wootz steel !!!

I have been etching the sword this morning using a solution of warm vinigar and soap, and in the steel there is a nice grain showing up. I have checked around on reference sites and this does look like wootz steel so far. Ill post some pictures up later on once I have have finished the etch and cleaned up the blade.

Regards,

Will

William.m · 22nd May 2006, 01:09 PM

Okay here we go, Firstly a close up of the blade showing wootz steel. The other pictures are of the many many cresent designs all over the blade.

20th May 2006, 07:38 PM	#1
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Khanda,what is it? Hello everybody, long time lurker... rare poster. I have here a Khanda that I bought today at a local antique shop. I know very little about this sword except that that the basket-hilt makes it somewhat of a rarity from what I have read on this forum. Here are some pictures, and thanks in advance for any info.

20th May 2006, 07:42 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Hi William , Is that a downward curve I see in the blade ? Or is it an optical delusion ?

20th May 2006, 07:45 PM	#3
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Haha, it has a very slight inwards curved blade. It is not as much as you think as maybe my photo is a bit off im not sure why it looks so curved!! I can get some more pictures if you would like. Regards, Will

20th May 2006, 07:47 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	More pictures are always useful .

20th May 2006, 08:16 PM	#5
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Alrighty, have a reduced size picture here so that you can see the inward curve. Also there is a closeup of the hilt.

20th May 2006, 11:23 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My understanding that Khanda usually has re-inforcing plates on both edges, so that the upper one remains sharp for ! 1/3 and the lower one for !2/3-3/4 of the length. I looked at gatka videos where they use Khanda and the fencer kept his left hand on the back side of the blade, directing the sword. This one is , IMHO, in Sowth Indian style (pierced guard) and the entire style of the guard is of a transition between Old Indian and basket styles. I would guess 17-18th century. The blade... Well, it depens if one wants to call it a Patissa or a Sossun Pata (because of the downward curvature). I would not be surprised if it was wootz. My 5 cents worth....

21st May 2006, 08:07 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I was looking at a very nice Indian talwar with a wootz blade before I bought the Kaskara, There is something about the combination of good cloth scabbard and newish blade and an old not original handle that puts me off the money asked for some of these things which could just be paranoia. There is no reason why this is not a weapon put together in the late 19th century for display purposes, as the use of such weapons became more anachronistic. The Indian Army was I believe in some ways better equipped than the regular British army certainly the Indian Army pattern sabres seem a lot better than those of the home army.

21st May 2006, 09:30 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ariel, that you have an old tulwar with faint spurs of reinforcement does not proof anything, when it comes to this sword – tulwars did not, normally as far as I know have reinforcements. Tim, the scabbards is so far of ‘no’ interest, and your postulation 'that there is no reason why this is not a weapon put together in the late 19th century for display purposes, as the use of such weapons became more anachronistic', is only a postulate.

21st May 2006, 10:24 PM	#11
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Hi guys, Okay firstly in my opinion I believe that this is indeed an old blade, but has been recently buffed and sharpened. It is quite obvious that the blade has been sharpened and buffed while the blade was still attached to the hilt. This is because you can see where the polish stops just above the guard, and also the sharpening of the blade is very different when you get down to the guard where the style is different. Also at the bottom of the blade the metal has a dark patina. Secondly the fuller is very shallow and dissipears in some areas, making me belive that the blade was overpolished even more. Adding to this, I can see the two cresent design at least six times on the blade, although one some it is very faint as too much metal has been removed. If you want I can put up some pictures of this. In answer to a question, the cresent designs are all up near the top of the blade. In the first picture you can see it if you look carefully. Anyways tomorrow if the weather is good I will give the blade a light acid wash, though there is no need to worry as I have done this before. Thanks for all the info so far, keep them posts coming in ! Regards, will

22nd May 2006, 11:48 AM	#12
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Ladies and Gents, we have Wootz steel !!! I have been etching the sword this morning using a solution of warm vinigar and soap, and in the steel there is a nice grain showing up. I have checked around on reference sites and this does look like wootz steel so far. Ill post some pictures up later on once I have have finished the etch and cleaned up the blade. Regards, Will

22nd May 2006, 01:09 PM	#13
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Okay here we go, Firstly a close up of the blade showing wootz steel. The other pictures are of the many many cresent designs all over the blade.