Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 31st December 2017, 02:30 PM   #1
Kmaddock
Member
 
Kmaddock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 543
Default Firangi, khanda what do I call it?

Hi
Just picked up the attached sword in my local antique shop.
It was quiet rusted when I got it but cleaned up well
Nice sword in just the condition I like it with lots of age shown there are some star stamps on the blade but the pictures did not come out great.

There is also a small hole in the fuller where I presume a nail once mounted the sword in an old collection,
Blade length of 80 cm

Found some evidence of previous gold leaf on the handle which was nice to find

What I found interesting is the damage on the guard, took a lot of energy to do this, i was going to straighten it out but then I noticed the guard is made of two layers which you can hopefully see in the photo. I would have imagined that the guard would all be made from the one sheet interesting that they took the time to laminate it.

Would anyone hazard a guess on the age of this sword? And would yo go Firangi or khanda

Many thanks and a happy new year to all.

Regards
Ken
Attached Images
     
Kmaddock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2017, 04:14 PM   #2
Kmaddock
Member
 
Kmaddock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 543
Default

Close up on blade stamp, finally got decent shot
Ken
Attached Images
 
Kmaddock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st December 2017, 05:13 PM   #3
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,906
Default

Firangi. 19th century with an older blade....
My two cents.

Happy new year!

Marius
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 01:00 PM   #4
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

When we had only Rawson, Egerton and Stone the answer would have been much easier: straight blade without widened tip, lack of retaining plates = Firangi when the blade is European or Dhup when the blade is local. With all of the above = Khanda.

Elgood’s book ( the Jodhpur one) threw a monkey wrench into this simple approach: he calls Khanda both straight and curved blades, both with and a without retaining plates, both spoon-like and straight tips, with either basket or Tulwar handles. And all combinations thereof.

I am sure he has a reason for it, but I am still at a loss.....
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 04:47 PM   #5
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel

Elgood’s book ( the Jodhpur one) threw a monkey wrench into this simple approach: he calls Khanda both straight and curved blades, both with and a without retaining plates, both spoon-like and straight tips, with either basket or Tulwar handles. And all combinations thereof.

I am sure he has a reason for it, but I am still at a loss.....
Hello Ariel and HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Maybe Elgood had a reason to call this Khanda, but what if his reason was wrong?!
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 04:52 PM   #6
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

Happy new year all
i think Elgood call them khanda because the hilt is a khanda style.
Firangi means only Franks, Crusaders or strangers
Because the blades were imported from Europe.
But like you Marius I would call this sword a firangi.
Ken your sword is very very beautiful, please send us a zoom on the ricasso and also the marks...
The hole was used to fix a previous hilt...I'm just kidding.

Kubur
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 08:41 PM   #7
Timo Nieminen
Member
 
Timo Nieminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 422
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Elgood’s book ( the Jodhpur one) threw a monkey wrench into this simple approach: he calls Khanda both straight and curved blades, both with and a without retaining plates, both spoon-like and straight tips, with either basket or Tulwar handles. And all combinations thereof.

I am sure he has a reason for it, but I am still at a loss.....
Local usage? After all, terms like this (khanda, tulwar, shamshir, gladius, kilij, etc.) mean, generically, "sword" in their languages of origin. It's only in foreign languages (like English) that they come to mean specific types of swords.
Timo Nieminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 08:59 PM   #8
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,906
Default

Hello Ken,

After seeing the detailed photos, I would estimate both the hilt and the blade to be 18th century.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st January 2018, 09:06 PM   #9
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Among many examples there is one with the word “khanda” in the inscription.
But only one.
There are several non-spatulated blades without handles, there are several non-spatulated ones with Tulwar handle etc.

Can Elgood be wrong? Sure. But he spent years researching the topic and is not exactly a superficial guy:-)

I would like to know the reason and the way of his thinking before I disagree with him. Wouldn’t you?
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2018, 01:57 PM   #10
Mercenary
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen
Local usage? After all, terms like this (khanda, tulwar, shamshir, gladius, kilij, etc.) mean, generically, "sword" in their languages of origin. It's only in foreign languages (like English) that they come to mean specific types of swords.
Excellent!
Mercenary is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.