brief notes on a 16th century sword

[cornelistromp]

in 1995 Sotheby’s auctioned one of the largest collections of a German noble house, maybe the largest.
Die Sammlung der Markgrafen und Großherzöge von Baden, 7 catalogues 7400 lots in 22days.
Also this sword was among the lots ,straight out of the armoury of the karlsruhe castle, described in the catalogue as German broadsword early 17thC.
But is it also 17thC ?, if we take a closer look at this sword;
the condition is surprising, hardly wear or damage, and the remains of the fire gilding are still present at the pommel and deeper parts of the hilt.
The blade is shiny and sharp, the sword could be used at any time again.
it has a pommel in the form of a scent stopper, actually a later variation of Oakeshott pommel type T.
The grip is of one and a half hands size, wherein the rear hand covers a portion of the grip and the pommel.
the sword is swift and feels light in hand, it can be used with one hand only.
The hilt has a guard with recurved quillons across the plane of the blade.
Those recurved quillons were common in art in the first quarter of the 16th century.
the blade has no ricasso or start and has a long wide fuller over the entire length with two shorter Fullers on each side.
a geometry that occurred in the 15th and 16th century on north Italian swords but blades like this are also made in Solingen, (actually a similar lower quality version was produced till the mid of the 19th century for export to Africa and India.)
in all aspects this sword tend me more to the beginning of the 16th century then to the early 17th century.

In Art:
A similar sword is depicted in a painting by Joerg brue the Elder, made in 1501, - the crucifixion.

Best,
jasper

[cornelistromp]

some additional pics.

[cornelistromp]

...

[corrado26]

Brief correction:
"this sword was among the lots ,straight out of the armoury of the Karlsruhe Castle" is not correct.
The whole collection and the sword came from the castle of Baden-Baden. At the time when this sword was made, the house of Baden-Baden was strictly separated from the house of Baden-Durlach (later capital Karlsruhe).
As I am living nearby I used the opportunity to be present at all 22 days of this huge auction .
corrado26

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by corrado26

Brief correction:
"this sword was among the lots ,straight out of the armoury of the Karlsruhe Castle" is not correct.
The whole collection and the sword came from the castle of Baden-Baden. At the time when this sword was made, the house of Baden-Baden was strictly separated from the house of Baden-Durlach (later capital Karlsruhe).
As I am living nearby I used the opportunity to be present at all 22 days of this huge auction .
corrado26

thanks, that must have been a very intersting experience, to join such an auction.
The following is indicated by Sotheby's in the catalogue nr 1 together with a Picture of the Karlsruher Castle!
The furniture and decorative objects depicted on the following pages are an integral part of the Baden and Kurpfalzian royal residential culture of 250 years.
so indeed not very clear where it comes from in great detail.
In any case, the sword is older than the above Castle, the Karlsruhe palace but may of course have been there for a period of time, who can tell.
nevertheles straight out of the armoury of the Baden-Baden Castle is fine.

Neues Schloss Baden-Baden, where the Sotheby's auction took place was the residence of christopher I from 1479 onwards.
In 1515 the margrave was divided into three parts, Christopher I handed over the country to his three sons.

with some (big) imagination the sword could have been owned by somebody near one of the three sons, perhaps near Bernhard III, regent for the left-Rhine possessions of the Markgrave from 1515-1535.
He was also founder of the house of Baden-Baden, thereby became the Separation of Baden-Durlach and Baden-Baden a fact in the year 1533.

best,
jasper

[mariusgmioc]

I am definitely not a specialist in the field and I am rather paranoid by nature... so for me this looks like ta typical 19century "Historismus" sword.

The mere fact that it came from an old and respected collection, doesn't make it necessarily genuine. I have seen other examles where otherwise reputed myuseums were dead wrong about the age of some of the items in their collections.

PS: See for example posting #20 in the thread below:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=chicago