Shotel draw

nKante · 21st June 2016, 01:44 AM

So Abyssinian warriors wore their swords on the right side of the body and drew with the same hand. I strapped my sword in the same relative position that the sword are shown being carried in photos. The best way for me to draw was to orientate my hand, knuckles down, palm gripping the handle, with the back of the hand facing the body. But when the sword is drawn, the live edge of the blade is on the inside of the curve, facing away from the enemy. Does anyone have any information on the traditional drawing method for this sword?

VANDOO · 21st June 2016, 02:43 AM

JUST A GUESS BUT I SUSPECT THEY DREW THE SWORD AND SCABBARD TOGETHER AND THEN USED BOTH HANDS TO TAKE THE SWORD FROM THE SCABBARD. I HAVE READ THIS IS HOW THE YATAGHAN WAS DRAWN IN TURKEY AND THAT THE SCABBARD WAS DROPPED OR PERHAPS HELD IN THE OTHER HAND AND USED TO BLOCK. THE ETHIOPIAN SWORD SCABBARDS WOULD LIKELY BE DROPPED AS THEY WOULD NOT BE VERY GOOD FOR BLOCKING. IF YOU WON YOU PICKED UP THE SCABBARD IF YOU LOST YOU DID NOT NEED IT ANYMORE.

roanoa · 21st June 2016, 03:21 PM

Well, the scabbard of the shotel (and gorade) was laced to the belt and could not be removed. I agree that it is pretty difficult to draw long and/or very curved blades unless you use the left hand and then switch hands. Reverse drawing works fine with blades of about 30 inches as long as the scabbard has not shrunk too much.

VANDOO · 21st June 2016, 06:28 PM

IN THAT CASE MY SCENARIO WILL NOT WORK AND ONE WOULD NOT WANT TO FIGHT WITHOUT A BELT AS THE PANTS TEND TO FALL DOWN.

thinreadline · 22nd June 2016, 12:09 AM

In battle the need for a 'quick' draw would be very rare . The sword would have been drawn and orientated correctly long before contact was made .

Jerseyman · 22nd June 2016, 01:35 PM

Hi Nkante,

My apologies if I'm misunderstanding something here, but your description states that the cutting edge of a shotel or gurade is on the inside (concave) edge of the curve rather than the outside (convex) edge. I have two gurades and they are both double-edged - so in theory they could be used either way round. But I've always assumed they were used like a cavalry sabre with the primary focus on attacking with the convex edge.

I'm in complete agreement with you that the logical draw from that position is as you describe - which would present the sharp convex edge to the opponent in a very efficient rising, attacking draw.

I suppose if it's sharp on both edges then either edge could be used by choice in combat.

The style of hilt seems to indicate a machete-style grip where the blade and forearm remain at roughly 90 degrees to each other - if that is the case it seems more logical to me to attack with the convex edge in a series of drawing cuts. Rather than the concave edge which would become a chopping action with the risk that the forwards-facing point would stick/jam into the shield or body of the opponent. This could be a serious disadvantage in a fight.

I've often been told that in un-armoured fights a sickle-style sword is useful for reaching over/past a shield to an exposed shoulder or head. I've also heard that meeting such a style of sword/attack in Dacia (?) led to changes in the Roman army's armour. I don't have references to support these assertions I'm afraid.

I also have a couple of Zande blades which are very clearly sharpened only on the concave edge. So I'm very aware that this style of blade does exist.

The development of practical weapons was almost always in reference to the context they developed in - indeed in response to the need to overcome some new obstacle/design. Nobody designs a fighting weapon that doesn't work and then continues to produce it. (I accept it is a different matter for ceremonial/ritual weapons) So of course there must have been cultural contexts where a convex-edge blade was the best fighting choice.

I guess what it boils down to is that I think shotel/gurades were used one way and Nkante has the opposite belief (if I'm reading right - apologies if not).

I'd be very interested if anyone has any historical references (written/visual) that would throw light onto the subject.

I'm also happy to be corrected on any of my historical assertions!

21st June 2016, 01:44 AM	#1
nKante Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Philly Posts: 72	Shotel draw So Abyssinian warriors wore their swords on the right side of the body and drew with the same hand. I strapped my sword in the same relative position that the sword are shown being carried in photos. The best way for me to draw was to orientate my hand, knuckles down, palm gripping the handle, with the back of the hand facing the body. But when the sword is drawn, the live edge of the blade is on the inside of the curve, facing away from the enemy. Does anyone have any information on the traditional drawing method for this sword? Attached Images

21st June 2016, 02:43 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	JUST A GUESS BUT I SUSPECT THEY DREW THE SWORD AND SCABBARD TOGETHER AND THEN USED BOTH HANDS TO TAKE THE SWORD FROM THE SCABBARD. I HAVE READ THIS IS HOW THE YATAGHAN WAS DRAWN IN TURKEY AND THAT THE SCABBARD WAS DROPPED OR PERHAPS HELD IN THE OTHER HAND AND USED TO BLOCK. THE ETHIOPIAN SWORD SCABBARDS WOULD LIKELY BE DROPPED AS THEY WOULD NOT BE VERY GOOD FOR BLOCKING. IF YOU WON YOU PICKED UP THE SCABBARD IF YOU LOST YOU DID NOT NEED IT ANYMORE.

21st June 2016, 03:21 PM	#3
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 230	Well, the scabbard of the shotel (and gorade) was laced to the belt and could not be removed. I agree that it is pretty difficult to draw long and/or very curved blades unless you use the left hand and then switch hands. Reverse drawing works fine with blades of about 30 inches as long as the scabbard has not shrunk too much.

21st June 2016, 06:28 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IN THAT CASE MY SCENARIO WILL NOT WORK AND ONE WOULD NOT WANT TO FIGHT WITHOUT A BELT AS THE PANTS TEND TO FALL DOWN.

22nd June 2016, 12:09 AM	#5
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	In battle the need for a 'quick' draw would be very rare . The sword would have been drawn and orientated correctly long before contact was made .

22nd June 2016, 01:35 PM	#6
Jerseyman Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 97	Hi Nkante, My apologies if I'm misunderstanding something here, but your description states that the cutting edge of a shotel or gurade is on the inside (concave) edge of the curve rather than the outside (convex) edge. I have two gurades and they are both double-edged - so in theory they could be used either way round. But I've always assumed they were used like a cavalry sabre with the primary focus on attacking with the convex edge. I'm in complete agreement with you that the logical draw from that position is as you describe - which would present the sharp convex edge to the opponent in a very efficient rising, attacking draw. I suppose if it's sharp on both edges then either edge could be used by choice in combat. The style of hilt seems to indicate a machete-style grip where the blade and forearm remain at roughly 90 degrees to each other - if that is the case it seems more logical to me to attack with the convex edge in a series of drawing cuts. Rather than the concave edge which would become a chopping action with the risk that the forwards-facing point would stick/jam into the shield or body of the opponent. This could be a serious disadvantage in a fight. I've often been told that in un-armoured fights a sickle-style sword is useful for reaching over/past a shield to an exposed shoulder or head. I've also heard that meeting such a style of sword/attack in Dacia (?) led to changes in the Roman army's armour. I don't have references to support these assertions I'm afraid. I also have a couple of Zande blades which are very clearly sharpened only on the concave edge. So I'm very aware that this style of blade does exist. The development of practical weapons was almost always in reference to the context they developed in - indeed in response to the need to overcome some new obstacle/design. Nobody designs a fighting weapon that doesn't work and then continues to produce it. (I accept it is a different matter for ceremonial/ritual weapons) So of course there must have been cultural contexts where a convex-edge blade was the best fighting choice. I guess what it boils down to is that I think shotel/gurades were used one way and Nkante has the opposite belief (if I'm reading right - apologies if not). I'd be very interested if anyone has any historical references (written/visual) that would throw light onto the subject. I'm also happy to be corrected on any of my historical assertions!