Indian Torador Barrel Investigation

rickystl · 9th August 2015, 11:27 PM

Hello all.
Here is a Torador I plan on making into a safe shooting gun. It is in very good overall condition, with the exception of a break in the upper end of the stock's forearm. But nothing is missing, so it will be an easy fix.
So the real issue is the barrel. My preliminay investigation shows me that the inside of the breech area is a larger diameter than the bore size (.59 caliber/15mm). It seems the breech end of the barrel was closed using a plug and forge welding. That method of sealing the breech must have worked since the guns were used for some 300+ years virtually unchanged. But I simply don't trust shooting a muzzle loading gun without a threaded breech plug. So I will need to drill out the breech end starting with a small drill bit, and slowly working my way up with larger bits enlarging the hole till it meets with the walls of the barrel. This will also answer a question I've had for many years as to how the inside of the breech of these barrels was designed. There is much speculation. But we will finally solve this mystery in due course.
Here are pics of the dis-assembled gun. It was easy enough. Just remove the barrel bands and the breech retaining pin.
Rick.

rickystl · 9th August 2015, 11:29 PM

SOME MORE PICS..........

rickystl · 9th August 2015, 11:32 PM

HERE ARE PICS OF THE BREECH END WITH THE DIRT CLEANED OFF.
It looks like a small plug inside a larger one??? Now I really have no idea till I open up the breech. LOL

Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 10th August 2015, 03:07 AM

I can imagine you peering in there like Carter into King Tut's tomb!

Spiders, smurfs, who knows!?
Very hard to generalize on these, as some were made with smaller powder chambers, and some larger powder chambers.
I had an old Enfield musket, and it's breech was larger than bore, but that was just Very bad pitting!

Look forward to seeing what you find.

Richard.

David R · 11th August 2015, 10:34 PM

Very much looking forward to further developments here.

rickystl · 15th August 2015, 08:06 PM

Hi Pukka.
LOL!!! Yes, I'm going to be sooooo curious.

Hi David.
There are other muzzle loading gun shooters and collectors that are also curious to see the pics. I want to try to understand their theory of ballistics by analyzing the design of the barrel/breech interior.
In the YouTube video "Mughal Matchlock" they seem to think the lead ball was seated just FORWARD of the powder chamber instead of being seated ON TOP of the powder. When I run a metal rod down the barrel, and press to one side, there seems to be a ridge just before the swell at the breech begins. Very strange. Not having the lead ball seated directly on top of the powder would at minimum reduce velocity and could also be considered a bore obstruction. Hmmmm.
Rick.

9th August 2015, 11:27 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Indian Torador Barrel Investigation Hello all. Here is a Torador I plan on making into a safe shooting gun. It is in very good overall condition, with the exception of a break in the upper end of the stock's forearm. But nothing is missing, so it will be an easy fix. So the real issue is the barrel. My preliminay investigation shows me that the inside of the breech area is a larger diameter than the bore size (.59 caliber/15mm). It seems the breech end of the barrel was closed using a plug and forge welding. That method of sealing the breech must have worked since the guns were used for some 300+ years virtually unchanged. But I simply don't trust shooting a muzzle loading gun without a threaded breech plug. So I will need to drill out the breech end starting with a small drill bit, and slowly working my way up with larger bits enlarging the hole till it meets with the walls of the barrel. This will also answer a question I've had for many years as to how the inside of the breech of these barrels was designed. There is much speculation. But we will finally solve this mystery in due course. Here are pics of the dis-assembled gun. It was easy enough. Just remove the barrel bands and the breech retaining pin. Rick. Attached Images

9th August 2015, 11:29 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	SOME MORE PICS.......... Attached Images

9th August 2015, 11:32 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	HERE ARE PICS OF THE BREECH END WITH THE DIRT CLEANED OFF. It looks like a small plug inside a larger one??? Now I really have no idea till I open up the breech. LOL Rick. Attached Images

10th August 2015, 03:07 AM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I can imagine you peering in there like Carter into King Tut's tomb! Spiders, smurfs, who knows!? Very hard to generalize on these, as some were made with smaller powder chambers, and some larger powder chambers. I had an old Enfield musket, and it's breech was larger than bore, but that was just Very bad pitting! Look forward to seeing what you find. Richard.

11th August 2015, 10:34 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Very much looking forward to further developments here.

15th August 2015, 08:06 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Pukka. LOL!!! Yes, I'm going to be sooooo curious. Hi David. There are other muzzle loading gun shooters and collectors that are also curious to see the pics. I want to try to understand their theory of ballistics by analyzing the design of the barrel/breech interior. In the YouTube video "Mughal Matchlock" they seem to think the lead ball was seated just FORWARD of the powder chamber instead of being seated ON TOP of the powder. When I run a metal rod down the barrel, and press to one side, there seems to be a ridge just before the swell at the breech begins. Very strange. Not having the lead ball seated directly on top of the powder would at minimum reduce velocity and could also be considered a bore obstruction. Hmmmm. Rick.