My first Koummya

taube · 21st January 2014, 09:55 AM

Gentlemen,

my first post and my first Koummya.

I am a collector of military antiques originally but those Koummyas caught me.
In the neighbourhood, I got this one for practically nothing.
It is hardly worth collecting regarding the blade but it serves its purpose as a studying object.
The seller said it was given to him as a present in Oman some 30 years ago.
My limited knowldege tells me it is a Moroccan style dagger.
At the same time it is not a classic Koummya.

What do you think?
What region is this style of decoration typical for?

Thanks in advance,
taube.

spiral · 21st January 2014, 09:46 PM

Later 20th century tourist piece... Atlas mountain area perhaps? copying older pieces.... That's why the blade isn't real...

Would look nice on a wall at a distance though....

Spiral

taube · 22nd January 2014, 08:29 AM

Thanks, Spiral.
What makes the blade "unreal"?
My thought was it´s just heavily used.
It is over 4mm thick on top and very stable.
Or is the whole manner of making that tells you it´s touristy?

Cheers,
taube.

spiral · 22nd January 2014, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taube

Thanks, Spiral.
What makes the blade "unreal"?
My thought was it´s just heavily used.
It is over 4mm thick on top and very stable.
Or is the whole manner of making that tells you it´s touristy?

Cheers,
taube.

I Have handled several very similar decorated late 20th century pieces,

All though in truth I don't the ones Ive seen had 4mm thick blades.

Is the blade tempered spring steel? ? or if bent stays bent? That's the most defining feature for real or not.

spiral

taube · 22nd January 2014, 05:36 PM

Thanks to you both!

Will put to the bending test as soon as I am at home, spiral.

Here is another one that came from the same source with the same story.
I dared not show it due to its condition earlier but I any can only learn.

Cheers,
taube.

taube · 23rd January 2014, 08:17 AM

Okay, you are right about the blade.
It is NOT spring steel but can be deformed permanently.
Good lesson, thanks again.

kai · 23rd January 2014, 08:39 AM

Welcome to the forum!

Actually, I do like the second one much more! Despite the obvious repairs it does show genuine wear and decent workmanship on the decorations.

The first one may be an old blade that got completely revamped in modern times?

Regards,
Kai

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd January 2014, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taube

Gentlemen,

my first post and my first Koummya.

I am a collector of military antiques originally but those Koummyas caught me.
In the neighbourhood, I got this one for practically nothing.
It is hardly worth collecting regarding the blade but it serves its purpose as a studying object.
The seller said it was given to him as a present in Oman some 30 years ago.
My limited knowldege tells me it is a Moroccan style dagger.
At the same time it is not a classic Koummya.

What do you think?
What region is this style of decoration typical for?

Thanks in advance,
taube.

Salaams taube Welcome to the Forum! Ok good choice of weapon to start on... Koummya are an excellent start point and you will be amazed where the study takes you ... just type into Forum Search and also take it to web search ... Ok its a recent 20th C example however this will open the door to a really great study... I look forward to seeing how you progress with this great subject..ok? For a flying start see #53 just press on this link on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=koummya
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

blue lander · 22nd January 2014, 03:22 PM

I think buying a tourist Koummya is a rite of passage for all new collectors.

There's so many on ebay. I posted a picture of my three, yours at least is much nicer and I assume older.

The lesson I learned from buying these is to pay more attention to the quality of the blade than the quality of the sheath and hilt. If it doesn't look like much effort was made into shaping and "finishing" the blade, then the blade was probably never meant to be seen. IE it's a wall hanger or decorative piece.

When it comes time to buy a real Koummya I'll probably go with a trusted seller rather than auction. There's just too many tourist models floating around.

colin henshaw · 24th January 2014, 04:07 PM

I don't collect these Moroccan daggers, but have seen a few and quite like them. The first dagger is of a recognised type from a specific area in Morocco (can't remember which). My feeling is it is not a tourist object, but just a budget example, now in rough condition, made for a poorer local person. Hence the use of the glass decorative elements (some missing) rather than silver, for example.

A nice start to a collection.

Regards.

spiral · 24th January 2014, 11:17 PM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Vandoo...

It is an interesting question, that one finds in many ethnographic arms.

Personally I like the ones I keep to be in the definite, rather than the unsure category when it comes to usability.

I have a 1942 shybriya that was probably made for British army tourists... But its of true weapon quality. For me that is a defining point.

But yes that's just my taste in arms. For me they must be fully functional within my understanding. {which of course will reflect both my knowledge & my lack of it.}

Spiral

21st January 2014, 09:55 AM	#1
taube Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 45	My first Koummya Gentlemen, my first post and my first Koummya. I am a collector of military antiques originally but those Koummyas caught me. In the neighbourhood, I got this one for practically nothing. It is hardly worth collecting regarding the blade but it serves its purpose as a studying object. The seller said it was given to him as a present in Oman some 30 years ago. My limited knowldege tells me it is a Moroccan style dagger. At the same time it is not a classic Koummya. What do you think? What region is this style of decoration typical for? Thanks in advance, taube. Attached Images

22nd January 2014, 03:22 PM	#9
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I think buying a tourist Koummya is a rite of passage for all new collectors. There's so many on ebay. I posted a picture of my three, yours at least is much nicer and I assume older. The lesson I learned from buying these is to pay more attention to the quality of the blade than the quality of the sheath and hilt. If it doesn't look like much effort was made into shaping and "finishing" the blade, then the blade was probably never meant to be seen. IE it's a wall hanger or decorative piece. When it comes time to buy a real Koummya I'll probably go with a trusted seller rather than auction. There's just too many tourist models floating around. Attached Images

21st January 2014, 09:46 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Later 20th century tourist piece... Atlas mountain area perhaps? copying older pieces.... That's why the blade isn't real... Would look nice on a wall at a distance though.... Spiral

22nd January 2014, 08:29 AM	#3
taube Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 45	Thanks, Spiral. What makes the blade "unreal"? My thought was it´s just heavily used. It is over 4mm thick on top and very stable. Or is the whole manner of making that tells you it´s touristy? Cheers, taube.

22nd January 2014, 05:36 PM	#5
taube Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 45	Thanks to you both! Will put to the bending test as soon as I am at home, spiral. Here is another one that came from the same source with the same story. I dared not show it due to its condition earlier but I any can only learn. Cheers, taube. Attached Images

23rd January 2014, 08:17 AM	#6
taube Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 45	Okay, you are right about the blade. It is NOT spring steel but can be deformed permanently. Good lesson, thanks again.

23rd January 2014, 08:39 AM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,252	Welcome to the forum! Actually, I do like the second one much more! Despite the obvious repairs it does show genuine wear and decent workmanship on the decorations. The first one may be an old blade that got completely revamped in modern times? Regards, Kai

24th January 2014, 04:07 PM	#10
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	I don't collect these Moroccan daggers, but have seen a few and quite like them. The first dagger is of a recognised type from a specific area in Morocco (can't remember which). My feeling is it is not a tourist object, but just a budget example, now in rough condition, made for a poorer local person. Hence the use of the glass decorative elements (some missing) rather than silver, for example. A nice start to a collection. Regards.

24th January 2014, 11:17 PM	#11
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thanks for sharing your thoughts Vandoo... It is an interesting question, that one finds in many ethnographic arms. Personally I like the ones I keep to be in the definite, rather than the unsure category when it comes to usability. I have a 1942 shybriya that was probably made for British army tourists... But its of true weapon quality. For me that is a defining point. But yes that's just my taste in arms. For me they must be fully functional within my understanding. {which of course will reflect both my knowledge & my lack of it.} Spiral