Rare Blunderbuss with folding bayonet

Marcus den toom · 2nd January 2014, 05:56 PM

A few days before christmass i contacted the seller of this rare blunderbuss, it will arrive next Monday (because of all the holiday madness, humbug

)
Anyway, i saw the thing and immediately was intrigued by it. Usually you see these blunderbusses fitted with a bayonet on top of the barrel. some of them have a bayonet underneath the barrel. This one and only this one, as far as my research shows, has the bayonet on the right side of the barrel. It is "locked" into place by the dog/hammer. The seller said the bayonet was 6mm to short for it to be locked into place, but i noticed that the dog has a sickle shape which has broken off at some point in its life. When the dog is cocked, it will hold the bayonet in place. When fired, the bayonet will swing forward (a rather dangerous contraption i think).

The woodwork and brass is very well made, much attention for detail and also the correct stylistical features. This blunderbuss was made by (William) Ketland&co in the late 18th century (1790's), the counter plate for the lock is of typical Ketland design.
The barrel has British proofs, but is also heavily corroded as is the first part of the bayonet.

I am still figuring out for myself if i should do something about the corroded metal (maybe try and hammer it more flat) but i am not fond of messing with these unique things. I will try to find a good restorer though for the dog, it should be repaired (it has a small crack and the sickle shape should be replaced).

A whole lot of words, but the truth is.. i have no clue about blunderbusses, it looked rare but i noticed some forum members with a whole lot more experience with blunderbusses so please, enlighten me

Marcus den toom · 2nd January 2014, 05:56 PM

some more details

fernando · 2nd January 2014, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

... When the dog is cocked, it will hold the bayonet in place. When fired, the bayonet will swing forward ...

So that after (single) shooting you have a back up ? rather ingenious !
Does it still work ?

Marcus den toom · 2nd January 2014, 06:36 PM

Hi Fernando,
The mechanism does still function, but the sickle shape at the end of the dog/hammer is broken of, so when this is fixed it will hold the bayonet again.
The mode of operation would have been as follow. You fold the bayonet backwards towards the lock. The lock is put into half cock, this will move the sickle (or C) shaped end of the dog over the end of the bayonet. The blunderbuss is loaded, the pan is loaded. The lock is pput into full, the bayonet is still retained. The trigger is pulled, the dog snaps forward releasing a spark and also the bayonet (the sickle will move to its first position, and the bayonet will no longer be retained).

fernando · 2nd January 2014, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...This one and only this one, as far as my research shows, has the bayonet on the right side of the barrel...

Just for your info ...
There are more, although not necessarily with the same brilliant type of mechanism.
In catalogue #7 of Andrew Bottomley there was a pistol by James Forest (1830) with a spring bayonet, activated by a catch on the right side of the frame.

Matchlock · 2nd January 2014, 07:47 PM

Hi Marcus,

Though this is not really old enough to be of greater interest to me

, I can tell that the slightly convex shape of the buttstock denotes a time of production around the 1770's.
The pitting seems due to salty sea climate, which did not as much harm to the case-hardened surface of the lock as it did to the 'soft'-iron barrel.

Best,
Michael

Marcus den toom · 2nd January 2014, 08:10 PM

Hi Michael,

I am indeed suprised in a good way to find you in this topic

When the blunderbuss will arrive at my home, i will investigate the name Ketland on it. It might be William or Thomas Ketland instead of Ketland & co (it would make more sense if the butstock is of 1770's design).
I wondered, the pancover has a roller... i always believed they only came into fashion from around 1800's ?

Fernando, do you have a picture of this other specimen? I couldn't find it

Marcus den toom · 2nd January 2014, 08:19 PM

Also, does anyone know a good restorer? The dog needs to be repaired

Matchlock · 2nd January 2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Michael,

I am indeed suprised in a good way to find you in this topic

When the blunderbuss will arrive at my home, i will investigate the name Ketland on it. It might be William or Thomas Ketland instead of Ketland & co (it would make more sense if the butstock is of 1770's design).
I wondered, the pancover has a roller... i always believed they only came into fashion from around 1800's ?

That frizzen roller first appeared in the 1780's, so let's say '1780's' for your blunderbuss. By the early 1800's, the dog has taken on the inverted C-shape.

m

fernando · 2nd January 2014, 09:03 PM

Here you are. Not so good but ... will have to do

.

Fernando K · 2nd January 2014, 09:14 PM

Hello:

The P and V crowned, is the brand Testbed Birmingham before 1813.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Matchlock · 3rd January 2014, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Marcus,
The pitting seems due to salty sea climate, which did not as much harm to the case-hardened surface of the lock as it did to the 'soft'-iron barrel.

That's why blunderbusses for sea service mostly featured brass barrels ...

m

Fernando K · 3rd January 2014, 12:57 PM

Hello:

Here I upload the photos (bad) Trip of a blunderbuss, with brass barrel, Birmingham hallmarks, after 1813. In the plate (plate) of the key (lock) TWIGG name is registered (I think it's fake) with folding bayonet, but the top of the barrel.

Afectuosmente. Fernando K

Fernando K · 3rd January 2014, 01:08 PM

Hello:

Moore pics:

Fernando K

Marcus den toom · 3rd January 2014, 01:31 PM

Hi Fernando K,

Thank you very much for the blunderbuss pictures. They are good enough to see the mechanism.

You are absolutly right Michael, if it wheren't for the high cost they would have made there cannons of brass more often as well (some swiffel guns where made of brass).

edit: the blunderbuss from Twigg looks real enough to me. There are 4 twigg's and one Twigg & Bass in Der Neue Stockel on page 1307 (book2). The blunderbuss in the pictures are most likely of John Twigg (1732-1790) i think in Piccadili,London Great brittain where he worked from 1776-1788.

2nd January 2014, 05:56 PM	#1
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Rare Blunderbuss with folding bayonet A few days before christmass i contacted the seller of this rare blunderbuss, it will arrive next Monday (because of all the holiday madness, humbug ) Anyway, i saw the thing and immediately was intrigued by it. Usually you see these blunderbusses fitted with a bayonet on top of the barrel. some of them have a bayonet underneath the barrel. This one and only this one, as far as my research shows, has the bayonet on the right side of the barrel. It is "locked" into place by the dog/hammer. The seller said the bayonet was 6mm to short for it to be locked into place, but i noticed that the dog has a sickle shape which has broken off at some point in its life. When the dog is cocked, it will hold the bayonet in place. When fired, the bayonet will swing forward (a rather dangerous contraption i think). The woodwork and brass is very well made, much attention for detail and also the correct stylistical features. This blunderbuss was made by (William) Ketland&co in the late 18th century (1790's), the counter plate for the lock is of typical Ketland design. The barrel has British proofs, but is also heavily corroded as is the first part of the bayonet. I am still figuring out for myself if i should do something about the corroded metal (maybe try and hammer it more flat) but i am not fond of messing with these unique things. I will try to find a good restorer though for the dog, it should be repaired (it has a small crack and the sickle shape should be replaced). A whole lot of words, but the truth is.. i have no clue about blunderbusses, it looked rare but i noticed some forum members with a whole lot more experience with blunderbusses so please, enlighten me

2nd January 2014, 09:03 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Here you are. Not so good but ... will have to do . Attached Images

3rd January 2014, 12:57 PM	#13
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello: Here I upload the photos (bad) Trip of a blunderbuss, with brass barrel, Birmingham hallmarks, after 1813. In the plate (plate) of the key (lock) TWIGG name is registered (I think it's fake) with folding bayonet, but the top of the barrel. Afectuosmente. Fernando K Attached Images

3rd January 2014, 01:08 PM	#14
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello: Moore pics: Fernando K Attached Images

2nd January 2014, 06:36 PM	#4
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Hi Fernando, The mechanism does still function, but the sickle shape at the end of the dog/hammer is broken of, so when this is fixed it will hold the bayonet again. The mode of operation would have been as follow. You fold the bayonet backwards towards the lock. The lock is put into half cock, this will move the sickle (or C) shaped end of the dog over the end of the bayonet. The blunderbuss is loaded, the pan is loaded. The lock is pput into full, the bayonet is still retained. The trigger is pulled, the dog snaps forward releasing a spark and also the bayonet (the sickle will move to its first position, and the bayonet will no longer be retained).

2nd January 2014, 07:47 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Marcus, Though this is not really old enough to be of greater interest to me , I can tell that the slightly convex shape of the buttstock denotes a time of production around the 1770's. The pitting seems due to salty sea climate, which did not as much harm to the case-hardened surface of the lock as it did to the 'soft'-iron barrel. Best, Michael

2nd January 2014, 08:10 PM	#7
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Hi Michael, I am indeed suprised in a good way to find you in this topic When the blunderbuss will arrive at my home, i will investigate the name Ketland on it. It might be William or Thomas Ketland instead of Ketland & co (it would make more sense if the butstock is of 1770's design). I wondered, the pancover has a roller... i always believed they only came into fashion from around 1800's ? Fernando, do you have a picture of this other specimen? I couldn't find it

2nd January 2014, 08:19 PM	#8
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Also, does anyone know a good restorer? The dog needs to be repaired

2nd January 2014, 09:14 PM	#11
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello: The P and V crowned, is the brand Testbed Birmingham before 1813. Affectionately. Fernando K

3rd January 2014, 01:31 PM	#15
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	Hi Fernando K, Thank you very much for the blunderbuss pictures. They are good enough to see the mechanism. You are absolutly right Michael, if it wheren't for the high cost they would have made there cannons of brass more often as well (some swiffel guns where made of brass). edit: the blunderbuss from Twigg looks real enough to me. There are 4 twigg's and one Twigg & Bass in Der Neue Stockel on page 1307 (book2). The blunderbuss in the pictures are most likely of John Twigg (1732-1790) i think in Piccadili,London Great brittain where he worked from 1776-1788.