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Old 21st October 2013, 06:52 PM   #1
weapons 27
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Default iron spear indian ?

It measures 45 cm long,

I think what would be Indian

can you give me your opinion
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Old 21st October 2013, 06:54 PM   #2
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Once cleaned
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Old 22nd October 2013, 12:01 AM   #3
Runjeet Singh
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An interesting item, and well made, but I don't think Indian, I think African. A wild guess would be Congo - but I'm sure there are others who could be more exact.

I can see why you would say Indian though!

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Old 22nd October 2013, 06:44 AM   #4
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THE DESIGN ON THE BLADE STRIKES ME AS AFRICAN ALSO PERHAPS A PROCESSIONAL SPEAR HEAD FOR A STANDARD BEARING POLE. THE WORKMANSHIP IS DIFFERENT THAN I USUALLY ASSOCIATE WITH CONGO SO MAYBE ETHIOPIA OR HAUSA TRIBE FROM NIGERIA OR MOORISH. JUST MY BEST GUESSES I AM SURE THOSE MEMBERS MORE KNOWLEGABLE IN THE FIELD WILL BE ABLE TO GIVE BETTER INFORMATION. WHATEVER IT IS ITS VERY WELL MADE AND I LIKE IT.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 07:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaalarms
An interesting item, and well made, but I don't think Indian, I think African. A wild guess would be Congo - but I'm sure there are others who could be more exact.

I can see why you would say Indian though!

Regards,
Runjeet
hi runjeet
It is the job of the socket which makes me say this, I've never seen African spear with a socket if worked and rencorced, I attached a picture with some Indian Sockets photos..I'm wrong can be!
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Old 22nd October 2013, 09:46 AM   #6
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Never seen such type from Congo.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 09:54 AM   #7
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The blade decoration certainly looks more African than Indian.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 11:54 AM   #8
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I vote for Sierra Leone - 19th century.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 01:13 PM   #9
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Here are some pics of a spearhead with similar characteristics to the central head in question ..... not very clear but note similar blade decoration . I have always taken this spear head to be African , though do not not which region.
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Old 24th October 2013, 02:33 PM   #10
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This thread might help.
Regards
Richard
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=bagirmi
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Old 24th October 2013, 02:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G
This thread might help.
Regards
Richard
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=bagirmi
Yep! That particular double headed example has left my collection but that's the one that had me thinking down Ethiopian lines...
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Old 25th October 2013, 10:28 AM   #12
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From W O Oldman "Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographical Specimens" 1907 - listed as "Mendiland, used by Chief Lobo"
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Old 25th October 2013, 02:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
From W O Oldman "Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographical Specimens" 1907 - listed as "Mendiland, used by Chief Lobo"
Thank you colin for your research...
so it is sierra leone
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Old 25th October 2013, 06:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
From W O Oldman "Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographical Specimens" 1907 - listed as "Mendiland, used by Chief Lobo"
Great stuff Colin! Wonderful to have a basis when seeing this kind of blade and shaft design now.

I'm always amazed on the forum how someone seems to recognize almost anything!
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Old 25th October 2013, 07:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
Great stuff Colin! Wonderful to have a basis when seeing this kind of blade and shaft design now.

I'm always amazed on the forum how someone seems to recognize almost anything!

Totally agree Iain!!!
It is fascinating to see how closely paralleled Indian and African arms can often be, and we well know a good number of these such as the haladie used in Sudan, deriving from Rajasthan origins and via Syria to N. Africa.

My first inclination on this spearhead would have been S. India due to the spaced collars on it, but in seeing the geometric linear decoration would have gone directly to Africa.

That particular Oldman reference, one precursor to Stones venerable work, has of course its own flaws in degree, despite being overall quite reliable.
I recall one item shown as a Tibetan short sword used as a reference to one same I acquired many years ago, and claimed from the British expedition there c. 1903? I later discovered it was in fact a Dahomean hwi and an identical example documented and provenanced in a Belgian museum from c. 1850.
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Old 27th October 2013, 05:40 PM   #16
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These spears seem a bit atypical for African weapons, in fact they remind me more of European polearms, such as the "Langue de Boeuf"...
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Old 27th October 2013, 06:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
These spears seem a bit atypical for African weapons, in fact they remind me more of European polearms, such as the "Langue de Boeuf"...
Given the Portuguese trading post and fort established on the coast since 1495 that seems quite plausible.

Similar perhaps to the complex hilt swords seen in coastal Congo from the same influences.
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Old 28th October 2013, 01:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
Given the Portuguese trading post and fort established on the coast since 1495 that seems quite plausible.

Similar perhaps to the complex hilt swords seen in coastal Congo from the same influences.
Yes, good point Iain. Sometimes we tend to forget how early these contacts were made, on the coastal areas at least. I wonder if any others have views on this interesting topic of European influence on West African traditional weapons, or examples to post ?
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Old 28th October 2013, 07:30 PM   #19
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Very nice spear! I have no idea where it may be from. However, an interesting and perhaps diagnostic feature is that the smaller outer blades appear to be a separate piece that slides over the central blade. This was probably done when red hot and the hole contracted and held it in place on the central blade as it cooled. Is that unique or a feature of other spears? None of the other examples shown seem to share it.

Just a thought,
Ed
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