Two Wootz Shamshirs for Comments

[A.alnakkas]

Hey all,

I got these today. Not exactly flashy and all but looks to be real wootz. Top one seems to be Sham wootz while the lower seems to be dark Persian wootz that could use some etching. The bottom one has a wootz crossguard and some strange weld almost like scarf weld but at the spine it looks as if its a discolouration rather then a weld, I'll leave it to more expert comments.


Both swords are Iraqi in use and decoration btw.

[Rick]

Looks like a scarf weld there, Lofty .
Usually this is a weld seen in a wootz to non-wootz blade .
I'm amazed at how clean the line is .

Also, in my totally inexpert opinion; both patterns look kinda loose; like Sham looks .

Pile on folks .

[A.alnakkas]

Yep, it could be sham on the bottom one too, though the 'ricasso' part of the weld seems to be wootz also. Granted my photos are total fail :P will get better ones tommorow.

[Rick]

Looking forward to the pix .
Note my edit .

Not flashy, but I'd give my left ****** to have one of them .

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Rick

Looking forward to the pix .
Note my edit .

Not flashy, but I'd give my left ****** to have one of them .

LOL

Lets see what you going to think about them once I get clearer pictures, the bottom one with the weld thingy is signed; Amal Assad Allah - Ya qadi al Hajat (O fulfiller of needs) but dont think its old Assad Allah work maybe put on it to give it 'prestige' :P

[Rick]

If every Rembrandt were a Rembrandt; right, mate ?

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

LOL

...but dont think its old Assad Allah work maybe put on it to give it 'prestige' :P

I agree on both points:-) Both cartuches seem later, and of similar technique. Could they be done recently by the same hand?

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Rick

Looks like a scarf weld there, Lofty .
Usually this is a weld seen in a wootz to non-wootz blade .
I'm amazed at how clean the line is .

Also, in my totally inexpert opinion; both patterns look kinda loose; like Sham looks .

Pile on folks .

Hi Rick,
Scarf weld for sure.
I believe that the crucible steel manufacturing method often produced a smaller ingot, and the scarf weld process was used to add steel to lengthen the blade?
I've got a rather nice 18thC Tulwar with a heavy rigid Shamshir type blade where there is a similar scarf weld up towards the hilt.
In my admittedly modest experience of this construction technique the scarf weld is always is roughly the same place. I've seen it Wootz to non-wootz/monosteel and wootz to wootz, as it is in my Tulwar.

Lotfy,
These are very nice swords.
Congratulations my friend.

Best
Gene

[ALEX]

Nice shamshirs, Lotfy
but I am not convinced this is scarf weld. It seems like decorative, gold-inlaid incision. Is it the same on other side?

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Nice shamshirs, Lotfy
but I am not convinced this is scarf weld. It seems like decorative, gold-inlaid incision. Is it the same on other side?

Nice observation mate! here are some photos: