Wierd Aluminium Hilted Sabre. Any Info?

A.alnakkas · 2nd October 2012, 08:58 PM

Hey guys,

What is this sword? the blade looks like a recycled European one. Its decent it is flexible and springs back straight to its normal shape, but alittle tired and needs cleaning.

No idea wherre it is from so would love some info.

laEspadaAncha · 2nd October 2012, 09:15 PM

The hilt and in particular the pommel recall a flyssa to me - Maghreb, maybe Kabyle or an overlapping area of Algeria or Eastern Morocco?

I know the langlet, knucklebow, and use of aluminum are hardly typical, but what about this sword is typical? The scabbard definitely looks African IMO.

A.alnakkas · 2nd October 2012, 09:39 PM

Hey mate,

The scabbard does look African yeah. I doubt its Moroccan, didnt they use leather on wood for their scabbards? this is a full leather scabbard.

Dom · 2nd October 2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

The scabbard does look African yeah. I doubt its Moroccan, didnt they use leather on wood for their scabbards? this is a full leather scabbard.

My Bro. your doubts are justified

either from Morocco, or Kabylia, I never saw some sword looks like this one

employs aluminum would think, recycling of ?? that's the question pending

à +

Dom

VANDOO · 2nd October 2012, 10:44 PM

IT DON'T LOOK LIKE MUCH TODAY BUT DURING THE TIME OF NAPOLEAN THAT HANDLE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE PRECIOUS THAN A SOLID GOLD ONE.

PROBABLY NOT THAT OLD LIKELY OF WW2 VINTAGE BUT PERHAPS SOME ONE IN AFRICA STILL THOUGHT IT A PRESTIGEOUS METAL AS IT WAS LIKELY RARE IN PARTS OF AFRICA EVEN THEN. DOES THE HANDLE APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN CAST OR JUST PIECED TOGETHER FROM BITS OF SOMETHING ELSE? VERY INTERESTING

spiral · 2nd October 2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

DOES THE HANDLE APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN CAST OR JUST PIECED TOGETHER FROM BITS OF SOMETHING ELSE? VERY INTERESTING

The grip is definaly cast....

Whether Aluminium, zinc or pot metal is hard to say, without bieng in hand or weighing the balance....

Spiral

colin henshaw · 3rd October 2012, 09:48 AM

Aluminium was commonly used in the manufacture of native objects in East Africa during the first half of the 20th century (from melted down European pots & pans). This looks like a copy of one of those Zanzibar/Swahili Coast nimcha-type swords, or could be derived from a European military sabre ? The scabbard lining seems to be made of hardboard (used for making partitions etc.)

A.alnakkas · 3rd October 2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Aluminium was commonly used in the manufacture of native objects in East Africa during the first half of the 20th century (from melted down European pots & pans). This looks like a copy of one of those Zanzibar/Swahili Coast nimcha-type swords, or could be derived from a European military sabre ? The scabbard lining seems to be made of hardboard (used for making partitions etc.)

You are right about the scabbard. I dont think the hilt is a copy of a nimcha, maybe a European hilt.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd October 2012, 07:05 PM

Salaams all ~ There are a lot of aluminium handled Nimcha in both Yemen and Oman. They seem to be melted down from old pots. The scabbard marks on the project item appear to be African Yemeni or even Omani. Melting pans is the sort of thing I imagine itinerant gypsy style groups wandering from village to village where they were involved in tinning and making tools etc. In Oman these tinkers were called Zutoot.

It should be remembered that, here, silver represents the Moon (Gold the Sun) and the cheaper lookalike variants were tin and aluminium and in the case of gold ~ brass. That is why marriage chests (dowry chests are studded with brass studs.To reflect evil.) In terms of the other silvery stuff ~ "liquid moon"~ Mercury ! That was until quite recently (pre circa 1970) often rubbed into babies gums to ward off evil ~

I think these aluminium hilts are ending up in a variety of places including souks like Muscat and Sanaa and being taken as basic swords though not perhaps as weapons... by Bedouin handy to have around as a sort of badge of office and for the occasional dancing pageants, weddings, feasts, meetings of leaders etc etc enacted all over Arabia. The blades are invariably very low quality.

Here's one similar below;

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

TVV · 3rd October 2012, 07:41 PM

Well done Ibrahiim, the example you posted is extremely close. Southern Arab Peninsula then, very interesting.

Regards,
Teodor

A.alnakkas · 3rd October 2012, 08:08 PM

Very interesting Ibrahim. Though I would like to point out that the blade on mine is far from low quality, average at the least. Could it perhaps had a functional purpose aswell? the blade on mine is certainly made to be used and is forged, flexible and have been sharpened before. What about the durability of the hilt material? the hilt is pretty light and comfy.

2nd October 2012, 08:58 PM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Wierd Aluminium Hilted Sabre. Any Info? Hey guys, What is this sword? the blade looks like a recycled European one. Its decent it is flexible and springs back straight to its normal shape, but alittle tired and needs cleaning. No idea wherre it is from so would love some info. Attached Images

3rd October 2012, 07:05 PM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all ~ There are a lot of aluminium handled Nimcha in both Yemen and Oman. They seem to be melted down from old pots. The scabbard marks on the project item appear to be African Yemeni or even Omani. Melting pans is the sort of thing I imagine itinerant gypsy style groups wandering from village to village where they were involved in tinning and making tools etc. In Oman these tinkers were called Zutoot. It should be remembered that, here, silver represents the Moon (Gold the Sun) and the cheaper lookalike variants were tin and aluminium and in the case of gold ~ brass. That is why marriage chests (dowry chests are studded with brass studs.To reflect evil.) In terms of the other silvery stuff ~ "liquid moon"~ Mercury ! That was until quite recently (pre circa 1970) often rubbed into babies gums to ward off evil ~ I think these aluminium hilts are ending up in a variety of places including souks like Muscat and Sanaa and being taken as basic swords though not perhaps as weapons... by Bedouin handy to have around as a sort of badge of office and for the occasional dancing pageants, weddings, feasts, meetings of leaders etc etc enacted all over Arabia. The blades are invariably very low quality. Here's one similar below; Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images

2nd October 2012, 09:15 PM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	The hilt and in particular the pommel recall a flyssa to me - Maghreb, maybe Kabyle or an overlapping area of Algeria or Eastern Morocco? I know the langlet, knucklebow, and use of aluminum are hardly typical, but what about this sword is typical? The scabbard definitely looks African IMO.

2nd October 2012, 09:39 PM	#3
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey mate, The scabbard does look African yeah. I doubt its Moroccan, didnt they use leather on wood for their scabbards? this is a full leather scabbard.

2nd October 2012, 10:44 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT DON'T LOOK LIKE MUCH TODAY BUT DURING THE TIME OF NAPOLEAN THAT HANDLE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE PRECIOUS THAN A SOLID GOLD ONE. PROBABLY NOT THAT OLD LIKELY OF WW2 VINTAGE BUT PERHAPS SOME ONE IN AFRICA STILL THOUGHT IT A PRESTIGEOUS METAL AS IT WAS LIKELY RARE IN PARTS OF AFRICA EVEN THEN. DOES THE HANDLE APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN CAST OR JUST PIECED TOGETHER FROM BITS OF SOMETHING ELSE? VERY INTERESTING

3rd October 2012, 09:48 AM	#7
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Aluminium was commonly used in the manufacture of native objects in East Africa during the first half of the 20th century (from melted down European pots & pans). This looks like a copy of one of those Zanzibar/Swahili Coast nimcha-type swords, or could be derived from a European military sabre ? The scabbard lining seems to be made of hardboard (used for making partitions etc.)

3rd October 2012, 07:41 PM	#10
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Well done Ibrahiim, the example you posted is extremely close. Southern Arab Peninsula then, very interesting. Regards, Teodor

3rd October 2012, 08:08 PM	#11
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Very interesting Ibrahim. Though I would like to point out that the blade on mine is far from low quality, average at the least. Could it perhaps had a functional purpose aswell? the blade on mine is certainly made to be used and is forged, flexible and have been sharpened before. What about the durability of the hilt material? the hilt is pretty light and comfy.