Keris Bahari?

ariel · 6th May 2012, 11:35 PM

First of all, I would like to thank everybody who responded to my inquiry about buffalo horn hilts.
Nobody asked me why was I interested in this esoteric issue. Well, here is an explanation, and a (sort of) continuation of my earlier query.

On a whim, I bought a kris I liked. IMHO, this is a Keris Bahari, but I am a complete keris newbie and would like to know more. Allegedly, it came from an old collection, and the same seller offered several more kerises, mainly of Java and Sumatra origins.

The blade is very meaty and quite sharp. It is strongly patinated, but there is no rust and no pitting except some small areas of forging flaws.

The hilt has sparse, but very precise and tasteful carvings at the base and on the very top ( kind of like a trefoil).

The blade and the cavity of the scabbard smell very strongly of camphor oil .

The scabbard is fully intact, with just a tiny crack at its upper part ( almost not noticeable). It is covered with some kind of black varnish? paint?, and there are tiny areas of paint losses under which one can see pale wood. One side of the scabbard is decorated with very simple and completely intact carvings ( this looks to me either incredibly well preserved or newish).

What did I buy?
Is it new and touristy? Or, hopefully, old and valuable, kind of Indonesian Excalibur :-) ?
Is it indeed K. Bahari ( remember, I am a newbie in this area)? Should anything be done to the scabbard in terms of removing the varnish and re-oiling it? Should the blade be cleaned ( pineapple juice, vinegar)? I am NOT going to play with arsenic:-) Any reason to polish the blade before using acid? Any other comments or suggestions?
Thanking everybody in advance.

ariel · 6th May 2012, 11:35 PM

Part 2.

Sajen · 7th May 2012, 12:27 AM

Hello Ariel,

it is not a keris bahari but a keris panjang, both keris have the same blade profile while the keris panjang blade is longer. Some people call this keris execution keris. The keris is from Sumatra.

The blade seems to have old rust, not active so far I can see from your pictures.

The varnish seems to my eyes (dirt-) patination maybe overpainted with some sort of finish.

The reason is maybe that the stem (by javanese keris called gandar) is a later addition since the original one was broken, but this is all only a guess since I never have seen such a "gandar" by a keris panjang.

When it will be my keris I would clean the blade in lemon acid or pineapple juice. The scabbard I would let in this state since I am very unsure about the stem/gandar. But the upper part normally have a very very nice wood.

Here a thread where you can see three other keris panjang: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panjang
But with the search word "panjang" you will find more.

Regards,

Detlef

ariel · 7th May 2012, 11:23 AM

Thank you.
What is the numerical difference in length ( analogous to katana/wakizashi) that differentiates Panjang from Bahari? I always thought that panjang's blade is at least ~50 cm, that's why I called mine bahari.

Would you hazard a guess about the age and value ( not monetary!) of it?

Sajen · 7th May 2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Thank you.
What is the numerical difference in length ( analogous to katana/wakizashi) that differentiates Panjang from Bahari? I always thought that panjang's blade is at least ~50 cm, that's why I called mine bahari.

Would you hazard a guess about the age and value ( not monetary!) of it?

Hello Ariel,

here a thread with some interesting informations regarding panjang/bahari: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=bahari
When you look in up of your thread, post #1, you don't have given a length from your keris and I have given my statement only from my visual impression. In the above given thread I show in post # 40 a keris with a blade length from only 36 cm which I personally still would call panjang. You will see keris in this thread which are clearly bahari keris.

Keris panjang are not so many time on the market and sought after but the keris you have bought by ebay (I have had it in my watch list) wasn't sold fast and I think that the pictures and and the strange stem or batang was the reason (at least for me). I am still think that the batang is a later addition.

But all this is my personal impression and believe and there are other much more knowledge members like BluErf or Alam Shah who will be able to tell you much more exact opinions about your keris.

Best regards,

Detlef

ariel · 8th May 2012, 01:02 AM

I checked the length of the blade alone: 18.5 inches or 47 cm.
Would it still qualify for K. Panjang?

6th May 2012, 11:35 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Part 2. Attached Images

6th May 2012, 11:35 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Keris Bahari? First of all, I would like to thank everybody who responded to my inquiry about buffalo horn hilts. Nobody asked me why was I interested in this esoteric issue. Well, here is an explanation, and a (sort of) continuation of my earlier query. On a whim, I bought a kris I liked. IMHO, this is a Keris Bahari, but I am a complete keris newbie and would like to know more. Allegedly, it came from an old collection, and the same seller offered several more kerises, mainly of Java and Sumatra origins. The blade is very meaty and quite sharp. It is strongly patinated, but there is no rust and no pitting except some small areas of forging flaws. The hilt has sparse, but very precise and tasteful carvings at the base and on the very top ( kind of like a trefoil). The blade and the cavity of the scabbard smell very strongly of camphor oil . The scabbard is fully intact, with just a tiny crack at its upper part ( almost not noticeable). It is covered with some kind of black varnish? paint?, and there are tiny areas of paint losses under which one can see pale wood. One side of the scabbard is decorated with very simple and completely intact carvings ( this looks to me either incredibly well preserved or newish). What did I buy? Is it new and touristy? Or, hopefully, old and valuable, kind of Indonesian Excalibur :-) ? Is it indeed K. Bahari ( remember, I am a newbie in this area)? Should anything be done to the scabbard in terms of removing the varnish and re-oiling it? Should the blade be cleaned ( pineapple juice, vinegar)? I am NOT going to play with arsenic:-) Any reason to polish the blade before using acid? Any other comments or suggestions? Thanking everybody in advance. Attached Images

7th May 2012, 12:27 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello Ariel, it is not a keris bahari but a keris panjang, both keris have the same blade profile while the keris panjang blade is longer. Some people call this keris execution keris. The keris is from Sumatra. The blade seems to have old rust, not active so far I can see from your pictures. The varnish seems to my eyes (dirt-) patination maybe overpainted with some sort of finish. The reason is maybe that the stem (by javanese keris called gandar) is a later addition since the original one was broken, but this is all only a guess since I never have seen such a "gandar" by a keris panjang. When it will be my keris I would clean the blade in lemon acid or pineapple juice. The scabbard I would let in this state since I am very unsure about the stem/gandar. But the upper part normally have a very very nice wood. Here a thread where you can see three other keris panjang: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panjang But with the search word "panjang" you will find more. Regards, Detlef

7th May 2012, 11:23 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thank you. What is the numerical difference in length ( analogous to katana/wakizashi) that differentiates Panjang from Bahari? I always thought that panjang's blade is at least ~50 cm, that's why I called mine bahari. Would you hazard a guess about the age and value ( not monetary!) of it?

8th May 2012, 01:02 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I checked the length of the blade alone: 18.5 inches or 47 cm. Would it still qualify for K. Panjang?