Samoan question

[Tim Simmons]

I just want to ask and do not expect any reply. Why is the Nifo Oti thing if that is the right spelling. The version with the teeth. Is it always said to be inspired by a blubber knife? when to me it could look more like the arms of a Praying Mantis and be of Samoan origin and nothing to do with whalers. I know I am just a sod kicker but why sould we always trust the dodgy and predudice and colonial boosting oppinions of the past. Do blubber knives have teeth.

[katana]

Hi Tim ,
according to Pitt Rivers they were modelled on billhooks....

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...s/1899.62.718/

Hope this helps

Kind Regards David

[Tim Simmons]

Hello David,

I have seen that before. I know this sounds so pompous of me but, what they say is not necessarly the end of hypothiesis on the form and origin. Billhooks do not have teeth either. I will take some pictures to show why I question the current understanding.

[fearn]

Hi Tim,

A couple of suggestions. The teeth are functional in that they concentrate the force of the blow. Here's a couple of suggestions for what inspired them:

1) sharks. This should be self-explanatory. This is probably the primary inspiration for the teeth, IMHO.

2) Sawfish bills. I find no mention of sawfish native to Samoa, but these animals apparently do get to Vanuatu, or 1100 nautical miles away, and sawfish bills are weapons all along the western edge of the Pacific

3) Kiribati shark-toothed weapons. Kiribati is about 1200 nautical miles from Samoa, and I *think* they occasionally got into western Polynesia.

Best,

F

[ausjulius]

it is based off a weapon from the 19th century produced in polynesia made from very long hack blad,
these have a hook on the back for hanging the item and for moving chopped materials and pulling brush out of the way... the same style of knife is still very popular in the apls with or without the hook the cutitng edge is not on the hooked side and the hook is not a broad beak like a billhook but more like a steel rod..
swiss arm used to issue them both with the hook and without..

interestingly i saw one the other day in decent condition sell for 100$
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...T#ht_500wt_922

[fearn]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

it is based off a weapon from the 19th century produced in polynesia made from very long hack blad,
these have a hook on the back for hanging the item and for moving chopped materials and pulling brush out of the way... the same style of knife is still very popular in the apls with or without the hook the cutitng edge is not on the hooked side and the hook is not a broad beak like a billhook but more like a steel rod..
swiss arm used to issue them both with the hook and without..

interestingly i saw one the other day in decent condition sell for 100$
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...T#ht_500wt_922

Which came first? I thought those blades you describe imitated the nifu oti, not vice versa. That design is currently used in the Samoan fire knife.

I'd also add that, if you're looking for animal inspiration, a pig's tusk is a reasonable facsimile for that front hook on the nifu oti, but I could just as easily believe that it was originally inspired by a bend in a branch. Someone may have thought, "wow, that looks good for adding weight on the front and hooking things out of the way. Hmmmmm."

Best,

F

[katana]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Hello David,

I have seen that before. I know this sounds so pompous of me but, what they say is not necessarly the end of hypothiesis on the form and origin. Billhooks do not have teeth either. I will take some pictures to show why I question the current understanding.

Due to the fact there were no metal bladed implements ....the main cutting edges were often formed using animal teeth, fixing stone shards (like teeth) etc. I'm wondering whether the 'toothed' version is simply the 'native' interpretation ...or perhaps a symbolic 'counter version' (a way of obtaining the 'power' of the technically advanced 'visitors' by copying ?)