Keris Batak with strange blade?

VVV · 26th January 2011, 08:28 AM

I found this keris in a Toba Batak dress.
It's quite rare but there is one resembling in Leiden.
BUT the blade seems quite odd to me. The one in Leiden has the
more common Panjang-blade but this one is much sturdier and
resembles an elongated Palembang(?) -blade to me.
I have noticed that some other longer blades, that doesn't have
the Bahari/Panjang-shape,has been labeled Bangkinang at this forum?

I look forward to your feedback?

Michael

Sajen · 26th January 2011, 12:11 PM

Hello Michael,

OMG, you get every time the most curious pieces!

When someone other will post this keris I will believe it is a composed piece but what I can see from the pictures it is all typical Batak work apart from the blade. How fit the blade inside the sheath? The blade have a strong balinese/lombok touch in my humble opinion but more slender than normal. I am very curious what others will say about this keris.

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 26th January 2011, 05:58 PM

I agree with you Sajen. This is a composite piece to me. The Batak did not originally have much access to silver if I understand right nor did they make keris. Very nice though.

Sajen · 26th January 2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I agree with you Sajen. This is a composite piece to me. The Batak did not originally have much access to silver if I understand right nor did they make keris. Very nice though.

Hello Jose,
I think that they have had access to silver; many Kalasan or other batak things have silver parts so far I know but it's correct that they don't have a own "Keris culture" what don't mean that they have used in exceptional cases keris blades from other islands and dressed them in sui generis. The keris from Michael don't look recent to my eyes neither the sarung nor the blade. So it's good possible that this a old "composite piece".

Below two pictures of recently sold Batak swords with silver work.

Regards,

Detlef

VVV · 26th January 2011, 07:48 PM

Hi Detlef and Jose,

Thanks for your input.
Actually I was more curious on opinions on the blade than on the dress.
The dress is made for the keris blade. I can force down the blade more into it
but all horn and ivory scabbards shrink a bit here in Scandinavia so I prefer not to.
As Detlef wrote silver, as well as brass and suassa, is quite usual on Batak weapons.
Here is a reference picture from Leiden of a resembling keris. The Batak culture wasn't very closed.
But usually if they wore keris it was from other cultures, like the Minang Bahari,
not locally pimped like mine or the one in Leiden. And Jose is correct, they didn't make keris themeselves.

Any more opinions on the blade?

Michael

Gustav · 26th January 2011, 10:46 PM

At first, I am not able to have and give any substantial oppinion on a blade, these are just my thoughts, when I see it.

There is a high-end cousin of this blade, which was showed in the forum some while ago, which also is Sumatran.

For me, when I see a high quality older blade, it is possible to see the differences (becouse of fine worked features, which are typical for a certain region and period of time) and also the similarities, which probably could lead back to some older (late Majapahit?) standard. With a simpler, not "capital-court" quality blade, the fine are not worked out or become somewhat blurred, like somehow, who just repeats the superficial appearing without knowing the structure. So the lover quality blades from different regions are sometimes much more similar in my eyes.

Why one finds itself remembered on Bali/Lombok blades is, becouse of the smooth surface, yet also, more typical for Lombok blades, becouse of the exagerated ricikan elements done in medium workmanship, imitating a dhapur, which would be expected to be reseved for a high-end keris.

This surely is a keris coming from periphery of keris culture, and it comes in dress of a distant Sumatran region. This would fit together.

26th January 2011, 08:28 AM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Keris Batak with strange blade? I found this keris in a Toba Batak dress. It's quite rare but there is one resembling in Leiden. BUT the blade seems quite odd to me. The one in Leiden has the more common Panjang-blade but this one is much sturdier and resembles an elongated Palembang(?) -blade to me. I have noticed that some other longer blades, that doesn't have the Bahari/Panjang-shape,has been labeled Bangkinang at this forum? I look forward to your feedback? Michael Attached Images

26th January 2011, 07:48 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Detlef and Jose, Thanks for your input. Actually I was more curious on opinions on the blade than on the dress. The dress is made for the keris blade. I can force down the blade more into it but all horn and ivory scabbards shrink a bit here in Scandinavia so I prefer not to. As Detlef wrote silver, as well as brass and suassa, is quite usual on Batak weapons. Here is a reference picture from Leiden of a resembling keris. The Batak culture wasn't very closed. But usually if they wore keris it was from other cultures, like the Minang Bahari, not locally pimped like mine or the one in Leiden. And Jose is correct, they didn't make keris themeselves. Any more opinions on the blade? Michael Attached Images

26th January 2011, 10:46 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	At first, I am not able to have and give any substantial oppinion on a blade, these are just my thoughts, when I see it. There is a high-end cousin of this blade, which was showed in the forum some while ago, which also is Sumatran. For me, when I see a high quality older blade, it is possible to see the differences (becouse of fine worked features, which are typical for a certain region and period of time) and also the similarities, which probably could lead back to some older (late Majapahit?) standard. With a simpler, not "capital-court" quality blade, the fine are not worked out or become somewhat blurred, like somehow, who just repeats the superficial appearing without knowing the structure. So the lover quality blades from different regions are sometimes much more similar in my eyes. Why one finds itself remembered on Bali/Lombok blades is, becouse of the smooth surface, yet also, more typical for Lombok blades, becouse of the exagerated ricikan elements done in medium workmanship, imitating a dhapur, which would be expected to be reseved for a high-end keris. This surely is a keris coming from periphery of keris culture, and it comes in dress of a distant Sumatran region. This would fit together. Attached Images

26th January 2011, 12:11 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Michael, OMG, you get every time the most curious pieces! When someone other will post this keris I will believe it is a composed piece but what I can see from the pictures it is all typical Batak work apart from the blade. How fit the blade inside the sheath? The blade have a strong balinese/lombok touch in my humble opinion but more slender than normal. I am very curious what others will say about this keris. Regards, Detlef

26th January 2011, 05:58 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I agree with you Sajen. This is a composite piece to me. The Batak did not originally have much access to silver if I understand right nor did they make keris. Very nice though.