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24th September 2010, 12:19 PM | #1 | |
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For comment: Possibly a 'Berber saber'
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24th September 2010, 12:47 PM | #2 |
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blade looks a lot like a british 1796 light cavalry sabre hatchet point blade that napoleons troops feared so much they tried to have it outlawed, because of the fearsome cuts it made. many other countries emulated the style. (the point is supposed to look like that)
a lot of 1796 sabres were given to the portuguese by wellington. maybe manuel was portuguese? part of the inscription seems to go under the grip bolster/scales & the full tang construction may mean it was cut down from the pommel end. (the brits themselves feared the sabres of the indian troops they faced in later years, only to find they were recycled (like your one?) 1796 LC sabres, the main difference being the indians sharpened theirs where the brits by then were indifferently sharpened & dulled in their metal scabbards by drawing/reinserting alot.) north africa seems to be home to a lot of re-handled european blades. as always, dimensions, blade/hand grip lengths, widths, thickness, weight will help. see attached. comparison only valid if dimensions fit 1796 blade=32.5-33 inches. heck, it could even be mexican/spanish colonial with a european trade blade - See This Linky to another thread here 1796 LC sabre photoshopped comparison: Last edited by kronckew; 24th September 2010 at 02:26 PM. |
25th September 2010, 06:15 AM | #3 |
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Hi Lee
I bought an item very similar on eBay earlier. It was described as African. When I researched further it became clear that it was in fact South American, as you have yourself indicated it might be. Horn handle like yours, slightly different pattern. After looking at mine I can start to see the resemble a Collins machete. I think yours is probably also a 19th century Collins machete. But I say that with reservations as I have very seen broadly similar swords being sold as Berber swords. Does yours have a leather scabbard. I think the fact that you have a western marking on it indicates to me it is probably a Collins machete, which was producted mainly for the Cuban/Latin American market. I'll post pictures as soon as I get the chance. Regards Ron |
25th September 2010, 06:27 AM | #4 |
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Could I clarify that.
Your blade is not all that much like a machete. Mine is clearly, on analysis, like a very exotic Collins machete. However, the similarity in the hilts between your sword, mine and others I have seen suggests Latin America. Collins machetes from Cuba (where mine is probably from) often featured these interesting horn hilts. Is it possible that these sorts of weapons were also employed in the Spanish American War? I would date both yours and mine to around that era certainly. Perhaps someone else can answer that. |
25th September 2010, 06:43 AM | #5 |
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Also, I can't quite read what it says on your sword blade but it looks very Spanishy to me!
I'm almost certain that this is a variant of the famous Collins machete. They did make swords for South America. In fact, they were a key exporter of military pattern swords to that region. And though yours has a curve, the hatchet point could be well be the kind of thing that came from the Collins stable. |
25th September 2010, 11:55 AM | #6 |
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I think Wayne may be correct about the blade...The posted sword and the LC 1796 sword shown together on the pictures posted by Wayne seem to be to scale. The LC blade is longer as it still has the tang....I believe on the posted sword the tang was removed....the forte re-worked so that slabs could be fitted.
Origins really could be arabic or South American....at the moment I'm siding with South American. The LC 1796 was adopted by the Prussians,1811 pattern or "Blücher sabre" and used by Portuguese and Spanish cavalry..... Regards David |
25th September 2010, 02:40 PM | #7 | |
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Not rejecting the colonial probability, it does in fact seems as the handle resembles North African work. |
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25th September 2010, 03:01 PM | #8 |
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Not quite the same.....but Artzi had this sword ....a spanish bladed berber sword.
http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=91 Regards David |
25th September 2010, 03:05 PM | #9 |
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A rather similar atmosphere, David
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25th September 2010, 03:27 PM | #10 | |
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Could it be that a space should be considered between 'DE' and 'JA', so as to be 'MANUEL DE JA ...' ? Thia would open the door to a few more plausible names ... still Spanish, i would say . |
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25th September 2010, 03:54 PM | #11 | |
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Hi 'Nando , "Deja vu" .....I have already search for 'manuel de ja', but cannot find any link to the name + sword Best David |
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25th September 2010, 04:14 PM | #12 |
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I fatfingered the name its manuel deje not deja. It is almost identical to the sword on this link.
edit: The item has been relisted, link removed . Last edited by Rick; 25th September 2010 at 09:28 PM. |
25th September 2010, 04:48 PM | #13 |
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Another sword on Artzi's site with a description relevent to the thread...
".......Spanish Colonial sword is the common name for these rare and unusual swords, however, where they were used is not very clear. It was attributed to Spanish troops serving in Spanish Morocco, and/or Philippines and/or Cuba and other Central America countries....." Although the hilt is of different material there are slight similarities...also the idea of a sword 'travelling' to the US ...from North Africa via South/central America seems remotely possible. David . |
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