Firangi, or basket-hilted tulwar

Emanuel · 17th August 2010, 02:36 AM

Here's one of my recent acquisitions. I had the feeling that it's a firangi with British blade. Haven't been able to confirm it and the seller, a fellow forumite here, feels it is an Indian blade.
I particularly like the pierced basket on this piece. Oriental-Arms has a similar one that he considers very old and I believe there are a few in Elgood as well. There are solder repairs to one of the quillons and at the junction of the basket guard and the hilt.
Any thoughts on this piece?

Emanuel

Lew · 17th August 2010, 04:18 AM

Emanuel

It looks like a nice example too bad about the back spike was cut down.

Still a nice piece.

Lew

minzzywinzzy · 17th August 2010, 03:10 PM

I saw one of these going back 2-3 months ago.

very similar but slightly larger.

Nice sword.

Lee · 18th August 2010, 01:40 PM

I have seen blades of similar form with this fuller pattern mounted in a variety of ways (and as diverse as a North African nimcha and a colonial American saber) and so I am led to expect that this is a trade blade of European origin, later 18th to early 19th century - so I'd opine that you have a nice firangi.

A caveat: the blade does look a bit crudely formed in some of the photos, but this may also reflect wear and resharpening. It could be a local copy of such a blade; greater flexibility would favor European versus greater rigidity expected in a local copy.

Jens Nordlunde · 18th August 2010, 05:05 PM

Emanuel,

Lee took nicely care of the blade, so now only the hilt remains, and as no one else has volunteered I will.

The hilt is from the south, maybe Deccan 17th/18th century.

Jens

Jim McDougall · 18th August 2010, 05:35 PM

Im with Lee and Jens on this as well, that blade is Continental European and most likely Solingen into the 18th century but as early as late 17th....it may well be Netherlands as well and definitely a trade blade. As Jens notes, a southern type feel to the hilt, and I have seen this type metal on patas of this age, which were also of the same regional perspective.
The pata I refer to also had a very early blade, with markings of 18th century style, a broadsword blade, which was also mercilessly sharpened over many years.
A really attractive solid and honest example, all the better in this rough as is condition, to me history itself stands proud in this one!!!
Nice going Emanuel!!!

All the best,
Jim

Emanuel · 18th August 2010, 10:58 PM

Thank you all for the replies

It's nice to hear this sword could be so old. Lee the blade is flexible and the crudeness is the result of sharpening and possibly someone trying to smooth out dents and nicks in the past. Otherwise everything is crisp about this blade.
The fuller pattern is what made me think European blades. For some reason I thought British but I can't quite identify any pattern with this type of fullering.

I actually just received some khukri and it's striking how the quality of fullers impacts the overall aspect of a blade. One has straight, deep and regular fullers like this firangi, while the other has superficial, irregular ones that are more of an afterthought. Nice fullers seem to add much more to the piece.

Thank you Jim and Jens for the hilt confirmation. I think it's in "Hindu Arms and Ritual" that I saw a similar southern hilt; I'll check. Lew I'm not so sure the spike was cut. I've seen pics of firangi with these smaller spikes, and this one looks too clean without any sign of breakage.

I'm very pleased with this sword, looking forward to it being in my care for a long time.

Best regards to all,
Emanuel

17th August 2010, 02:36 AM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Firangi, or basket-hilted tulwar Here's one of my recent acquisitions. I had the feeling that it's a firangi with British blade. Haven't been able to confirm it and the seller, a fellow forumite here, feels it is an Indian blade. I particularly like the pierced basket on this piece. Oriental-Arms has a similar one that he considers very old and I believe there are a few in Elgood as well. There are solder repairs to one of the quillons and at the junction of the basket guard and the hilt. Any thoughts on this piece? Emanuel Attached Images

17th August 2010, 03:10 PM	#3
minzzywinzzy Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 5	Seen one of these ! I saw one of these going back 2-3 months ago. very similar but slightly larger. Nice sword.

18th August 2010, 01:40 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	firangi I have seen blades of similar form with this fuller pattern mounted in a variety of ways (and as diverse as a North African nimcha and a colonial American saber) and so I am led to expect that this is a trade blade of European origin, later 18th to early 19th century - so I'd opine that you have a nice firangi. A caveat: the blade does look a bit crudely formed in some of the photos, but this may also reflect wear and resharpening. It could be a local copy of such a blade; greater flexibility would favor European versus greater rigidity expected in a local copy.

18th August 2010, 05:05 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Firangi Emanuel, Lee took nicely care of the blade, so now only the hilt remains, and as no one else has volunteered I will. The hilt is from the south, maybe Deccan 17th/18th century. Jens

17th August 2010, 04:18 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Emanuel It looks like a nice example too bad about the back spike was cut down. Still a nice piece. Lew

18th August 2010, 05:35 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Im with Lee and Jens on this as well, that blade is Continental European and most likely Solingen into the 18th century but as early as late 17th....it may well be Netherlands as well and definitely a trade blade. As Jens notes, a southern type feel to the hilt, and I have seen this type metal on patas of this age, which were also of the same regional perspective. The pata I refer to also had a very early blade, with markings of 18th century style, a broadsword blade, which was also mercilessly sharpened over many years. A really attractive solid and honest example, all the better in this rough as is condition, to me history itself stands proud in this one!!! Nice going Emanuel!!! All the best, Jim

18th August 2010, 10:58 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thank you all for the replies It's nice to hear this sword could be so old. Lee the blade is flexible and the crudeness is the result of sharpening and possibly someone trying to smooth out dents and nicks in the past. Otherwise everything is crisp about this blade. The fuller pattern is what made me think European blades. For some reason I thought British but I can't quite identify any pattern with this type of fullering. I actually just received some khukri and it's striking how the quality of fullers impacts the overall aspect of a blade. One has straight, deep and regular fullers like this firangi, while the other has superficial, irregular ones that are more of an afterthought. Nice fullers seem to add much more to the piece. Thank you Jim and Jens for the hilt confirmation. I think it's in "Hindu Arms and Ritual" that I saw a similar southern hilt; I'll check. Lew I'm not so sure the spike was cut. I've seen pics of firangi with these smaller spikes, and this one looks too clean without any sign of breakage. I'm very pleased with this sword, looking forward to it being in my care for a long time. Best regards to all, Emanuel