Unknown keris blade, Solo or Madura?

Paul B. · 7th June 2018, 02:49 PM

Shown is a blade with Ngulit semangka (Nggajih) pamor and suppose this blade is from Madura. The dress looks more like a Solo sarong with good fitting.
Is this dapur Anoman? The carved winged Singa could be an additional carving of more recent age? Are there 2 sogokan or is this kind of a Naga body ?

David · 7th June 2018, 03:52 PM

Hi Paul. I can't tell for sure from your photos, but that does look like elongated sogokan to me. Like the "winged" carving i am not sure if they are original to the blade though.
As for the "winged" carving, this is also a bit difficult to make out in your photos. In hand this is probably much clearer, but i do see what you are perceiving as "wings". However, this would not be a Singo. If indeed i am interpreting this correctly it would seem more likely to represent a winged elephant. I have seen such representation on keris before and in fact have a blade with a much more obvious carving of a winged elephant in this position on the blade.

Paul B. · 7th June 2018, 06:15 PM

Yes my bad...I meant a winged and crowned elephant.
This pic shows the details more clear.

Bjorn · 7th June 2018, 07:13 PM

When taken together, couldn't the elongated sokogan and winged elephant be taken as a representation of paksi naga liman?
Liman = elephant, paksi = bird, and the long sokogan would symbolize the naga's body.

As to whether the carving is recent or not, I wouldn't care to venture.

Can I ask, why do you assume the wilah is from Madura?
Personally, I still find it difficult to tell which blade is from where. What I know about Madura blades is that their gandhik tends to slope inward, and that they often have a wispy telale gajah. I have difficulty recognizing those traits in this particular blade. (But as I said, I am quite bad at that.)

Paul B. · 7th June 2018, 08:02 PM

Documented as a Solo kris but a more knowledgeable person assumed Madura as an origin. The clothes don't tell me so but that is not a definitive proof.

A. G. Maisey · 8th June 2018, 03:56 AM

This blade is certainly not Solo, but Madura?

I just do not know. It might be, but if so, pretty recent --- it doesn't look recent, however even if we do allow recent Madura, there are more than a few things that are not consistent with that.

I do not want to guess where it originated --- not from a pic anyway.

7th June 2018, 02:49 PM	#1
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Unknown keris blade, Solo or Madura? Shown is a blade with Ngulit semangka (Nggajih) pamor and suppose this blade is from Madura. The dress looks more like a Solo sarong with good fitting. Is this dapur Anoman? The carved winged Singa could be an additional carving of more recent age? Are there 2 sogokan or is this kind of a Naga body ? Attached Images

7th June 2018, 06:15 PM	#3
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Yes my bad...I meant a winged and crowned elephant. This pic shows the details more clear. Attached Images

7th June 2018, 08:02 PM	#5
Paul B. Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 205	Documented as a Solo kris but a more knowledgeable person assumed Madura as an origin. The clothes don't tell me so but that is not a definitive proof. Attached Images

7th June 2018, 03:52 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,113	Hi Paul. I can't tell for sure from your photos, but that does look like elongated sogokan to me. Like the "winged" carving i am not sure if they are original to the blade though. As for the "winged" carving, this is also a bit difficult to make out in your photos. In hand this is probably much clearer, but i do see what you are perceiving as "wings". However, this would not be a Singo. If indeed i am interpreting this correctly it would seem more likely to represent a winged elephant. I have seen such representation on keris before and in fact have a blade with a much more obvious carving of a winged elephant in this position on the blade.

7th June 2018, 07:13 PM	#4
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	When taken together, couldn't the elongated sokogan and winged elephant be taken as a representation of paksi naga liman? Liman = elephant, paksi = bird, and the long sokogan would symbolize the naga's body. As to whether the carving is recent or not, I wouldn't care to venture. Can I ask, why do you assume the wilah is from Madura? Personally, I still find it difficult to tell which blade is from where. What I know about Madura blades is that their gandhik tends to slope inward, and that they often have a wispy telale gajah. I have difficulty recognizing those traits in this particular blade. (But as I said, I am quite bad at that.)

8th June 2018, 03:56 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	This blade is certainly not Solo, but Madura? I just do not know. It might be, but if so, pretty recent --- it doesn't look recent, however even if we do allow recent Madura, there are more than a few things that are not consistent with that. I do not want to guess where it originated --- not from a pic anyway.