Bugis Celebes Keris / info on age/dapur ?

asomotif · 25th July 2007, 05:30 PM

Recently bought this Bugis Keris from a pre WW2 collection.
So before WW2 is sure, but can you help me on the age of the blade ?

The hilt seems Hippo ivory to me, am I right ?

There is a simple loop of wire attached to scabbard. seems of later date.
Any suggestions how such a loop should be fixed ?

Thanks for any input.
best regards,
Willem

David · 25th July 2007, 06:32 PM

I don't know all that much about ivory, but AFAIK hippos are an African animal and i would think a more local material would be more likely. It looks like sea ivory to me, but better pictures would help. Possible Dugong (also known as sea cows or manatees).
The fittings look like fairly well reprossed silver. As for the loop, i agree that it doesn't look original to the ensemble.
I am very curious about these loops. Are they functional (for wearing pehaps) or merely decorative? Are they specific to a particular region or do we find them where ever the Bugis went?

Will the hilt fit down any further on the pesi. If not i would guess that either the hilt or the pendokok (or both) are later, badly fitted additions.

Henk · 25th July 2007, 09:51 PM

I completely agree with David

The ukiran is probably sea ivory. About the fitting of it see the comment of David.

The loop is often seen on Bugis or Sumatran keris. AFAIK it is only seen on Sumatra. The function of it is for me unknown. I guess it is ceremonial and the cord was mostly covered with gold (suasa) or silver and dressed up with stones. But there where also more simple loops like yours. The functional use for it what I can think of is attaching the keris to the belt.

Age of a keris is very hard to tell. With this blade I wouldn't try to guess.

Battara · 25th July 2007, 10:51 PM

Are the mounts tarnished silver or gilded silver (which it looks likely).

I agree with needing better pictures for the ivory - some did trade in hippo ivory in the region.

Alam Shah · 26th July 2007, 01:46 AM

The wrapping to the bottom half of the sheath seems missing.

Blade-wise, a very good blade indeed, with pamor Raja Abala Raja.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Any suggestions how such a loop should be fixed ?

The loop is known as toli-toli. Normally, this type of keris is worn with a type of sash with a loop at the bottom end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

The loop is often seen on Bugis or Sumatran keris. AFAIK it is only seen on Sumatra. The function of it is for me unknown. I guess it is ceremonial and the cord was mostly covered with gold (suasa) or silver and dressed up with stones. But there where also more simple loops like yours. The functional use for it what I can think of is attaching the keris to the belt.

I believe the loop originated from Bugis Sulawesi. We can see it on older examples in many museums and books. Keris from Bima, Gowa... with the golden hilts etc. Bugis influence gradually grew on Sumatra, Riau-Lingga archipelago and elsewhere, so does it's keris and fittings.

The sheath cross-piece looks Malay... the hilt suggests Sumatra.
I agree that the loop is a possible later addition... but quite sometime back.
Looking at it again... basing on the hilt/hilt ring, unable to fit nicely... is it a composite piece?

Rick · 26th July 2007, 03:10 AM

Great looking pamor; one I haven't seen before .

25th July 2007, 05:30 PM	#1
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Bugis Celebes Keris / info on age/dapur ? Recently bought this Bugis Keris from a pre WW2 collection. So before WW2 is sure, but can you help me on the age of the blade ? The hilt seems Hippo ivory to me, am I right ? There is a simple loop of wire attached to scabbard. seems of later date. Any suggestions how such a loop should be fixed ? Thanks for any input. best regards, Willem Attached Images

25th July 2007, 06:32 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I don't know all that much about ivory, but AFAIK hippos are an African animal and i would think a more local material would be more likely. It looks like sea ivory to me, but better pictures would help. Possible Dugong (also known as sea cows or manatees). The fittings look like fairly well reprossed silver. As for the loop, i agree that it doesn't look original to the ensemble. I am very curious about these loops. Are they functional (for wearing pehaps) or merely decorative? Are they specific to a particular region or do we find them where ever the Bugis went? Will the hilt fit down any further on the pesi. If not i would guess that either the hilt or the pendokok (or both) are later, badly fitted additions.

25th July 2007, 09:51 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I completely agree with David The ukiran is probably sea ivory. About the fitting of it see the comment of David. The loop is often seen on Bugis or Sumatran keris. AFAIK it is only seen on Sumatra. The function of it is for me unknown. I guess it is ceremonial and the cord was mostly covered with gold (suasa) or silver and dressed up with stones. But there where also more simple loops like yours. The functional use for it what I can think of is attaching the keris to the belt. Age of a keris is very hard to tell. With this blade I wouldn't try to guess.

25th July 2007, 10:51 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Are the mounts tarnished silver or gilded silver (which it looks likely). I agree with needing better pictures for the ivory - some did trade in hippo ivory in the region.

26th July 2007, 03:10 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Great looking pamor; one I haven't seen before .