small twist core moro kris ?

[tom22]

Hi Firstly id like to introduce myself as im new to this forum , my name is tom and i like allsorts of weapons from african/pacific island clubs to swords from around the world etc etc,
My newest purchase is this very small moro kris sword , ive been after one of these for years and liked the twist core blade , my knowledge is very limited but i believe is quite an old one , i have only given it a gentle clean with wire wool and oil to remove the surface rust , i darnt over clean it as i guess this could devalue it ? anyway i will interested to see what you guys think about it ,
Thanks

[Ian]

Hi Tom. Welcome to the forum.

Very nice old Moro kris. Within the culture it was common to polish kris and etch them to show the pattern. This is still done today. I suspect that this one will show a lot of pattern if etched.

Regards,

Ian

[tom22]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Tom. Welcome to the forum.

Very nice old Moro kris. Within the culture it was common to polish kris and etch them to show the pattern. This is still done today. I suspect that this one will show a lot of pattern if etched.

Regards,

Ian

Hi Ian , Thanks for your welcome and accepting me in this forum ,
I have just looked up how to etch blades and i would be a bit nervous how to exactly go about it , Is it advisable to sand down a blade like this , or is there a way of lightly etching it maybe ? also i wondered that this is such a small blade could it be for a youngster as the wole sword only measures 53cm and is very dainty , i can oly manage to grip the hilt with three fingers ,though i do have big hands

[Lee]

I think it is lovely just as it is. If you sand it, you may change the pattern.

[tom22]

Originally Posted by Lee

I think it is lovely just as it is. If you sand it, you may change the pattern.

Hi yes , this is my concern , im quite happy with how it looks now , think i will leave it alone for now

[kino]

You got a beauty there. 3 waved Kris blades are hard to come by and to have it be a twist core, impossible for me.
What’s the blade length?
It it were mine, I would clean it up a bit and apply a coat of Ren wax and enjoy.

[tom22]

Originally Posted by kino

You got a beauty there. 3 waved Kris blades are hard to come by and to have it be a twist core, impossible for me.
What’s the blade length?
It it were mine, I would clean it up a bit and apply a coat of Ren wax and enjoy.

Thanks for your info and advice , its very small and only measures 53 cm in total

[ariel]

It looks very similar to Charles’ damascus barong discussed here recently. Twist core wall to wall.

[David]

Originally Posted by tom22

Hi Ian , Thanks for your welcome and accepting me in this forum ,
I have just looked up how to etch blades and i would be a bit nervous how to exactly go about it , Is it advisable to sand down a blade like this , or is there a way of lightly etching it maybe ?

Beautiful "archaic" style kris.
I don't know what you found when you looked up how to etch blades, but generally the etch done on Moro blades is a light etch. When i have done this i have used vinegar, which acts slowly and relatively gently. As advised, i would certainly not sand the blade in any way. You don't want to remove the topography that currently exists on the blade. But if you were to etch in in vinegar you could use a toothbrush to work along the blade. Even more fine grades of steel wool would help to clean our crevices before etching without removing any steel or wearing down the surface. A good cleaning and light etch will indeed make this pattern pop better. But if there is no rust and you are happy with the current look i think that is also fine.
I agree with Jean that this pommel is definitely old ivory, not bone. while the hilt and pommel are probably more recent than the blade i think this hilt might be a bit older than originally suspected when it first appeared to be wood.
Have you been able to identify the material of the ferrule? Is it actually silver of some other white metal?

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by David

Beautiful "archaic" style kris.
I don't know what you found when you looked up how to etch blades, but generally the etch done on Moro blades is a light etch. When i have done this i have used vinegar, which acts slowly and relatively gently. As advised, i would certainly not sand the blade in any way. You don't want to remove the topography that currently exists on the blade. But if you were to etch in in vinegar you could use a toothbrush to work along the blade. Even more fine grades of steel wool would help to clean our crevices before etching without removing any steel or wearing down the surface. A good cleaning and light etch will indeed make this pattern pop better. But if there is no rust and you are happy with the current look i think that is also fine.
I agree with Jean that this pommel is definitely old ivory, not bone. while the hilt and pommel are probably more recent than the blade i think this hilt might be a bit older than originally suspected when it first appeared to be wood.
Have you been able to identify the material of the ferrule? Is it actually silver of some other white metal?

Agreed on the etch part- that's how I've been etching Moro blades recently. When I had my first few antiques, I made the mistake of doing sandpaper and FeCl etch; nowadays I realize just fine steel wool and vinegar dip brings out the pattern that the original makers intended. Non-indigenous etchants produce results that aren't really "traditional" but still pretty nevertheless.

[David]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Agreed on the etch part- that's how I've been etching Moro blades recently. When I had my first few antiques, I made the mistake of doing sandpaper and FeCl etch; nowadays I realize just fine steel wool and vinegar dip brings out the pattern that the original makers intended. Non-indigenous etchants produce results that aren't really "traditional" but still pretty nevertheless.

I also must say that i have tried to search out old images of Moro warriors with their kris blades exposed and while i may have seen a couple that look like they may have been darkened with etchants i am not convinced this was actually the common practice back in the day. But frankly it is difficult to discern from old black & white photos whether blades have been darkened or not. I do understand why collectors like to see the patterns in laminated and twisted core blades more clearly, but i have not read anything that confirms this was the practice amongst the Moro tribes themselves. While i understand that the practice of staining blades with warangan became accepted in Java, Bali, Madura and Sumatra, given the multitude of pamor patterns and the spiritual and cultural significance of these different patterns, it does make sense why many Indonesian keris get such treatment. But as far as i know the same status for different patterns does not exist in Moro culture. Can anyone point to old accounts about Moro kris that speak with certainty to the darkening of blades with etchants?

[tom22]

Originally Posted by David

Beautiful "archaic" style kris.
I don't know what you found when you looked up how to etch blades, but generally the etch done on Moro blades is a light etch. When i have done this i have used vinegar, which acts slowly and relatively gently. As advised, i would certainly not sand the blade in any way. You don't want to remove the topography that currently exists on the blade. But if you were to etch in in vinegar you could use a toothbrush to work along the blade. Even more fine grades of steel wool would help to clean our crevices before etching without removing any steel or wearing down the surface. A good cleaning and light etch will indeed make this pattern pop better. But if there is no rust and you are happy with the current look i think that is also fine.
I agree with Jean that this pommel is definitely old ivory, not bone. while the hilt and pommel are probably more recent than the blade i think this hilt might be a bit older than originally suspected when it first appeared to be wood.
Have you been able to identify the material of the ferrule? Is it actually silver of some other white metal?

Hi David ,Thanks for your information and advice, Most etching techniques ive seen involved sanding the blade down to bright steel and then etching with vinegar or citrus juice to bring out the pattern , I quite like how it looks as it is , all ive done is use soft wire wool and oil to remove the red powdery rust and then cleaned the blade with rubbing alcohol , ive also applied a coat of ren wax ,
I believe the ferrule is silver , it was very black in colour and so i used some metal polish which shone it up