Looking for a source of sword (pommel) xrays

AHorsa · 14th September 2024, 10:14 AM

Dear all,

does anyone of you know a source of xrays of medieval iron sword pommels (from 1000AD+ on)? Or maybe has some images from his own research and would share?

I would be very happy

kind regards
Andreas

Jim McDougall · 14th September 2024, 04:38 PM

Interesting topic Andreas!
What exactly are you seeking as far as this subject matter? What resources have you already consulted? This is good to know so we can be aware of 'roads already traveled' to avoid redundancy. It also serves as a benchmark for various venues that have presented material on this subject.

One I found online was in "Studies in Conservation" Vol.61,2016, issue 2
"X-Ray Computed Tomography for Non Destructive Analysis of Early Medieval Swords". It seems to be in German , but I did not open it.

AHorsa · 15th September 2024, 10:00 AM

Thank you for your response, Jim and thanky for the link. Will request to get the pdf from the author.

I like to see differences in the pommel holes fitting the tang (tight fitting vs. asymmetrical wide hole). My ressources are two own images and one I found in an paper online: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig5_348050747
Interestingly here the author assumes that in this case the pommel could be mass production and the wide hole later been fitted for the certain blade / tang.

Jim McDougall · 15th September 2024, 03:28 PM

My pleasure Andreas, and I wish I could add more but this area is far out of my fields of study. Its a great approach to learning more on the fabrication of swords of these times, and I know there have been numerous looks into this but as part of the larger scope of tomography on swords.

It seems this is a relatively new concept, as I recall years back when Dr. Cyril Mazansky was writing his book on British basket hilts, he was already known for using non destructive tomography on a basket hilt found in an early shipwreck, I believe it was the 'Sea Venture". The wreck itself was the foundation of the Shakespeare drama "The Tempest".

I know that in the 17th century onward (and likely earlier) swords themselves were essentially assembled from components which were fashioned by other artisans, and by cutlers, sword slippers and the like. The blades were of course from blade makers and might be from these locally or imported depending on circumstances.
The pommels were typically made by individual makers so in times before standardization there must have been some alteration required.

It seems of course over the years many swords have come up with atypical pommels. AVB Norman in 1980 ("The Rapier and Smallsword 1400-1820) wrote and illustrated a categoric study of pommel forms, illustrating their common period of use as a guideline.

So it seems your line of thinking is well placed, and I look forward to your observations as your research continues.

All the best
Jim

14th September 2024, 10:14 AM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Looking for a source of sword (pommel) xrays Dear all, does anyone of you know a source of xrays of medieval iron sword pommels (from 1000AD+ on)? Or maybe has some images from his own research and would share? I would be very happy kind regards Andreas Last edited by AHorsa; 14th September 2024 at 10:33 AM.

14th September 2024, 04:38 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Interesting topic Andreas! What exactly are you seeking as far as this subject matter? What resources have you already consulted? This is good to know so we can be aware of 'roads already traveled' to avoid redundancy. It also serves as a benchmark for various venues that have presented material on this subject. One I found online was in "Studies in Conservation" Vol.61,2016, issue 2 "X-Ray Computed Tomography for Non Destructive Analysis of Early Medieval Swords". It seems to be in German , but I did not open it.

15th September 2024, 10:00 AM	#3
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 367	Thank you for your response, Jim and thanky for the link. Will request to get the pdf from the author. I like to see differences in the pommel holes fitting the tang (tight fitting vs. asymmetrical wide hole). My ressources are two own images and one I found in an paper online: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig5_348050747 Interestingly here the author assumes that in this case the pommel could be mass production and the wide hole later been fitted for the certain blade / tang.

15th September 2024, 03:28 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	My pleasure Andreas, and I wish I could add more but this area is far out of my fields of study. Its a great approach to learning more on the fabrication of swords of these times, and I know there have been numerous looks into this but as part of the larger scope of tomography on swords. It seems this is a relatively new concept, as I recall years back when Dr. Cyril Mazansky was writing his book on British basket hilts, he was already known for using non destructive tomography on a basket hilt found in an early shipwreck, I believe it was the 'Sea Venture". The wreck itself was the foundation of the Shakespeare drama "The Tempest". I know that in the 17th century onward (and likely earlier) swords themselves were essentially assembled from components which were fashioned by other artisans, and by cutlers, sword slippers and the like. The blades were of course from blade makers and might be from these locally or imported depending on circumstances. The pommels were typically made by individual makers so in times before standardization there must have been some alteration required. It seems of course over the years many swords have come up with atypical pommels. AVB Norman in 1980 ("The Rapier and Smallsword 1400-1820) wrote and illustrated a categoric study of pommel forms, illustrating their common period of use as a guideline. So it seems your line of thinking is well placed, and I look forward to your observations as your research continues. All the best Jim