Palm Leaf Manuscript Foldable Stylus Knife

olaicollector · 13th September 2013, 07:12 PM

Hi,

I am new to these forums, so please forgive my ignorance in any matter. I am actually a collector of palm leaf manuscripts and hence I collect various styluses that are used to inscribe them. Among my collection, is the following stylus that happened to be posted numerous times on this forum. Since I can read Tamil, I figured I can provide a better attribution for these knifes...

This particular stylus is called மடக்கெழுத்தாணி (Maṭakkeḻuttāṇi), which literally translates to foldable writing nail in English. The oldest reference I could find is a 1868 Tamil-English dictionary. But beyond that, this particular item is not mentioned. The more generic ones are described though. Let me know if you need more information on these. As a side note, I want to know how I can remove the rust buildup on the blade. What is the recommended method to clean this without leaving scratches on the blade and removing the patina??

Thanks,

Ram

laEspadaAncha · 14th September 2013, 06:57 PM

Hello Ram and welcome to the forum!

Thank you for posting this beautiful 'scribe' folder... you'll see my humble example in the other thread in whch you translated the initials on an ex-OA piece.

As you collect them, to your knowledge, do there exist any stylistic differences between these stylus knives to be found on both coasts (with regards to handle construction, shape, blade shape/grind, etc)?

Cheers,
Chris

kronckew · 14th September 2013, 07:48 PM

rust removal:

you can use the forum search function to search on 'rust removal'

one thread found out of many:

Linky to thread

agressive chemicals and/or abrasives will remove the patina.

JamesKelly · 15th September 2013, 02:46 AM

Ram, thank you for telling me what my knife, very similar, actually is. Bought years ago at a local antique show & don't even remember what they said it was, except it was from the East.

My collecting background is in antique guns, where one is very sensitive to possibly removing any original bluing or case hardening colors.

One must use something softer than the iron.
In my experience the best thing is a piece of copper or brass.
Good old bronze wool for the kitchen, if you can find it, works well with your favorite oil.
Stating what is the "best" penetrating oil is a little like positively identifying the Best brand of Whiskey.
Well, I'm not shy so I would use automatic transmission oil from your local auto parts store. This fluid itself is a cleaner, according to a good Automotive friend. Kroil is very good. Many people (not me!) like WD-40
Anyway, use copper or bronze wool and oil to scrub off the rust without damaging the color which you like.
I first learned this about 1961 cleaning crud off of an American Springfield M1873 caliber .45-70 rifle with a color case-hardened breech block. I was happy to see the case colors appear after I cleaned it with, I believe, a copper penny and whatever gun oil I had, probably Hoppe's No. 9.

So tomorrow I shall photograph my own "foldable writing nail" & post it.
What is the pointed wire used for?
Should you choose to include a dissertation on this blade of yours I will include it in my personal collection catalog.

Rich · 15th September 2013, 01:28 PM

I have seen several of these offered on ebay as "rug weaver's knives". Is there any truth to that story? It seemed a bit strange to me whenever I read that. Glad to know what they were actually used for.

Rich

JamesKelly · 15th September 2013, 06:42 PM

I see there is writing on my knife. Cleaned the steel just a bit, with bronze wool and Johnson's Paste Wax (I did not want to get oil onto the ivory). It has a decorative silver strip inlaid on the back of both blades.

Ram, can you tell me if this is from mainland India, Sri Lanka, or somewhere else? Any chance the writing is legible? Part is scratched in, the second half looks like connected punch marks. I tried to make it more legible with a charcoal pencil, not much luck.

A. G. Maisey · 15th September 2013, 11:13 PM

I have a knife that to my uneducated eyes appears to be the same, or at least very similar to this type of knife. I bought it many years ago, and it was offered for sale with one that had an ivory handle, which I did not buy. Bought from an elderly middle eastern gentleman who told me it was a carpet maker's knife. Later a pocket knife collector told me the same thing.

However, that said, it does seem more logical that it is a scribe's knife.

olaicollector · 15th September 2013, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Hello Ram and welcome to the forum!

Thank you for posting this beautiful 'scribe' folder... you'll see my humble example in the other thread in which you translated the initials on an ex-OA piece.

As you collect them, to your knowledge, do there exist any stylistic differences between these stylus knives to be found on both coasts (with regards to handle construction, shape, blade shape/grind, etc)?

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks for the warm welcome! I am not sure about other Southern Asian countries, but in South India, there were several different types of these foldable styluses. I have two different types and both of these types have already been posted in the forum. The differences are usually in the handles. The materials used are either ivory, animal horns, brass, or wood.

I am currently pursuing an investigation on the origin of these types of stylus as I have not been able to find references beyond 1860s. I have sent my request to some of India's manuscript scholars in this matter and hopefully I will get a response (might be difficult as I am an American with no pedigree in this, but who knows). I will keep you guys posted on my endeavor.

Finally, I am currently waiting shipment on a large collection of manuscripts and styluses from Denmark. The original origin of the contents happens to be from Sri Lanka and South India. So I should be in the process of receiving even more types in the coming weeks. Once it arrives, I'll post some pictures. There is a different type of stylus that has a curved knife one one end and the sharp stylus point on the other which should interest this forum...

Cheers,

Ram

13th September 2013, 07:12 PM	#1
olaicollector Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 8	Palm Leaf Manuscript Foldable Stylus Knife Hi, I am new to these forums, so please forgive my ignorance in any matter. I am actually a collector of palm leaf manuscripts and hence I collect various styluses that are used to inscribe them. Among my collection, is the following stylus that happened to be posted numerous times on this forum. Since I can read Tamil, I figured I can provide a better attribution for these knifes... This particular stylus is called மடக்கெழுத்தாணி (Maṭakkeḻuttāṇi), which literally translates to foldable writing nail in English. The oldest reference I could find is a 1868 Tamil-English dictionary. But beyond that, this particular item is not mentioned. The more generic ones are described though. Let me know if you need more information on these. As a side note, I want to know how I can remove the rust buildup on the blade. What is the recommended method to clean this without leaving scratches on the blade and removing the patina?? Thanks, Ram Attached Images Last edited by olaicollector; 14th September 2013 at 02:38 PM.

15th September 2013, 06:42 PM	#6
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	I see there is writing on my knife. Cleaned the steel just a bit, with bronze wool and Johnson's Paste Wax (I did not want to get oil onto the ivory). It has a decorative silver strip inlaid on the back of both blades. Ram, can you tell me if this is from mainland India, Sri Lanka, or somewhere else? Any chance the writing is legible? Part is scratched in, the second half looks like connected punch marks. I tried to make it more legible with a charcoal pencil, not much luck. Attached Images

14th September 2013, 06:57 PM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hello Ram and welcome to the forum! Thank you for posting this beautiful 'scribe' folder... you'll see my humble example in the other thread in whch you translated the initials on an ex-OA piece. As you collect them, to your knowledge, do there exist any stylistic differences between these stylus knives to be found on both coasts (with regards to handle construction, shape, blade shape/grind, etc)? Cheers, Chris

14th September 2013, 07:48 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	rust removal: you can use the forum search function to search on 'rust removal' one thread found out of many: Linky to thread agressive chemicals and/or abrasives will remove the patina.

15th September 2013, 02:46 AM	#4
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Ram, thank you for telling me what my knife, very similar, actually is. Bought years ago at a local antique show & don't even remember what they said it was, except it was from the East. My collecting background is in antique guns, where one is very sensitive to possibly removing any original bluing or case hardening colors. One must use something softer than the iron. In my experience the best thing is a piece of copper or brass. Good old bronze wool for the kitchen, if you can find it, works well with your favorite oil. Stating what is the "best" penetrating oil is a little like positively identifying the Best brand of Whiskey. Well, I'm not shy so I would use automatic transmission oil from your local auto parts store. This fluid itself is a cleaner, according to a good Automotive friend. Kroil is very good. Many people (not me!) like WD-40 Anyway, use copper or bronze wool and oil to scrub off the rust without damaging the color which you like. I first learned this about 1961 cleaning crud off of an American Springfield M1873 caliber .45-70 rifle with a color case-hardened breech block. I was happy to see the case colors appear after I cleaned it with, I believe, a copper penny and whatever gun oil I had, probably Hoppe's No. 9. So tomorrow I shall photograph my own "foldable writing nail" & post it. What is the pointed wire used for? Should you choose to include a dissertation on this blade of yours I will include it in my personal collection catalog.

15th September 2013, 01:28 PM	#5
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I have seen several of these offered on ebay as "rug weaver's knives". Is there any truth to that story? It seemed a bit strange to me whenever I read that. Glad to know what they were actually used for. Rich

15th September 2013, 11:13 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	I have a knife that to my uneducated eyes appears to be the same, or at least very similar to this type of knife. I bought it many years ago, and it was offered for sale with one that had an ivory handle, which I did not buy. Bought from an elderly middle eastern gentleman who told me it was a carpet maker's knife. Later a pocket knife collector told me the same thing. However, that said, it does seem more logical that it is a scribe's knife.