Hungarian swords and references query

Jim McDougall · 18th April 2021, 01:01 AM

In going through old notes, Ive come across old references to the often peculiar inscriptions and symbols on Hungarian blades referred to as 'the Transylvanian knot'. I think it was Ariel who found this information and possibly it came from a book on Hungarian swords, "Kardok" (Hungarian swords) by Lugosi Jozsef(?) and Tennesvary Ferenc.

I am wondering if anyone can say more on this curious inscription, the book, and perhaps where one might obtain this and other titles on these swords.
There is very little in books in English on Hungarian and Polish swords.

Another title I had the name of:
"Huszarfegverek a 15-17 Szazadban" (forgive my horrible spelling)
Tibor S. Kovacs

one more:
"a Magyar faj Vandor Pa'sa:
J. Zichy, Budapest, 1897

Sure would appreciate any info on these,

Victrix · 21st April 2021, 07:28 PM

Hi Jim!

I’m also interested in literature in English on Hungarian swords and arms/armour. Unfortunately these are quite rare.

You may be able to buy Lugosi’s Kardok and Nadolski’s Polish Sabres if you google local Hungarian and Polish online book shops and second hand book shops.

You may want to look up Dr. Tibor Kovacs (https://mnm.hu/en/users/dr-kovacs-s-tibor) at the Hungarian National Museum who has written quite a lot (in Hungarian). The museum is fantastic and well worth a visit. I have forever regretted not buying his book on maces and war hammers when I was there. He wrote a book on Hungarian Hussars in 15-17thC in Hungarian (which I don’t understand a word of)
https://issuu.com/lajosyossarian/doc...sz__rfegyverek

Some material is available in German like this on the fringia inscription: https://www.waffen-kostuemkunde.de/d...ds/Fringia.pdf. Peter Krenn is very good on Austro-Hungarian arms from Styria, e.g. https://www.historischerverein-stmk....-in-Coburg.pdf.

Hope this helps.

Jim McDougall · 22nd April 2021, 06:25 AM

Victrix, thank you so much for this information and these links!
Like you, I will not be able to read these, but always hope for good images and sometimes English captions. The Swedish Arms & Armor Society journal 'Varia" is wonderful, as they publish captions and summaries in English, and gratefully a good number of references do this.

Excellent information!

All very best regards
Jim

Dmitry · 30th April 2021, 12:08 AM

Hungarians keep it close to the vest, when it comes to literature on their swords. Polish swords are close to the Hungarian ones. For some unknown to me reason, Eastern Europeans refuse to publish books on edged weapons in English.
Here's a good recent volume on Polish swords...not in English. https://www.ebay.com/itm/25486890187...IAAOSwM2deP~FI

What is a Transylvanian knot?

Jim McDougall · 30th April 2021, 04:01 AM

Thanks very much Dmitry! good tip on this.
The 'Transylvanian knot' is basically a colloquial term for magic/occult/talismanic wording and symbols found on some Eastern European blades. I have never found any good literature on this, but I think Ariel had some reference to it in one of his obscure references on Hungarian swords.

The convention is similar to the 'magic' motif and decoration on the Caissagnard blades from Nantes in France 18thc.

Dmitry · 1st May 2021, 10:26 PM

In addition to what has already been mentioned, I recommend SPLENDEUR DE L'ARMURERIE HONGROISE, a profusely-illustrated 1999 Belgian exhibition catalog of Hungarian arms from the state museums. Scarce, but possible to find. And in a Romance language, not in magyar!

Jim, what does this Transylvanian knot look like?

Dmitry · 1st May 2021, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Hi Jim!

I’m also interested in literature in English on Hungarian swords and arms/armour. Unfortunately these are quite rare.

You may be able to buy Lugosi’s Kardok and Nadolski’s Polish Sabres if you google local Hungarian and Polish online book shops and second hand book shops.

You may want to look up Dr. Tibor Kovacs (https://mnm.hu/en/users/dr-kovacs-s-tibor) at the Hungarian National Museum who has written quite a lot (in Hungarian). The museum is fantastic and well worth a visit. I have forever regretted not buying his book on maces and war hammers when I was there. He wrote a book on Hungarian Hussars in 15-17thC in Hungarian (which I don’t understand a word of)
https://issuu.com/lajosyossarian/doc...sz__rfegyverek

Some material is available in German like this on the fringia inscription: https://www.waffen-kostuemkunde.de/d...ds/Fringia.pdf. Peter Krenn is very good on Austro-Hungarian arms from Styria, e.g. https://www.historischerverein-stmk....-in-Coburg.pdf.

Hope this helps.

Is the mace book written in English, or just the title and photo annotations are in English?
How I wish there was a away to read that FRINGIA article you linked to, in English! Alas, I tried, and couldn't translate the .pdf....

18th April 2021, 01:01 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hungarian swords and references query In going through old notes, Ive come across old references to the often peculiar inscriptions and symbols on Hungarian blades referred to as 'the Transylvanian knot'. I think it was Ariel who found this information and possibly it came from a book on Hungarian swords, "Kardok" (Hungarian swords) by Lugosi Jozsef(?) and Tennesvary Ferenc. I am wondering if anyone can say more on this curious inscription, the book, and perhaps where one might obtain this and other titles on these swords. There is very little in books in English on Hungarian and Polish swords. Another title I had the name of: "Huszarfegverek a 15-17 Szazadban" (forgive my horrible spelling) Tibor S. Kovacs one more: "a Magyar faj Vandor Pa'sa: J. Zichy, Budapest, 1897 Sure would appreciate any info on these,

21st April 2021, 07:28 PM	#2
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 710	Hi Jim! I’m also interested in literature in English on Hungarian swords and arms/armour. Unfortunately these are quite rare. You may be able to buy Lugosi’s Kardok and Nadolski’s Polish Sabres if you google local Hungarian and Polish online book shops and second hand book shops. You may want to look up Dr. Tibor Kovacs (https://mnm.hu/en/users/dr-kovacs-s-tibor) at the Hungarian National Museum who has written quite a lot (in Hungarian). The museum is fantastic and well worth a visit. I have forever regretted not buying his book on maces and war hammers when I was there. He wrote a book on Hungarian Hussars in 15-17thC in Hungarian (which I don’t understand a word of) https://issuu.com/lajosyossarian/doc...sz__rfegyverek Some material is available in German like this on the fringia inscription: https://www.waffen-kostuemkunde.de/d...ds/Fringia.pdf. Peter Krenn is very good on Austro-Hungarian arms from Styria, e.g. https://www.historischerverein-stmk....-in-Coburg.pdf. Hope this helps. Attached Images Last edited by Victrix; 21st April 2021 at 09:05 PM.

22nd April 2021, 06:25 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Victrix, thank you so much for this information and these links! Like you, I will not be able to read these, but always hope for good images and sometimes English captions. The Swedish Arms & Armor Society journal 'Varia" is wonderful, as they publish captions and summaries in English, and gratefully a good number of references do this. Excellent information! All very best regards Jim

30th April 2021, 12:08 AM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Hungarians keep it close to the vest, when it comes to literature on their swords. Polish swords are close to the Hungarian ones. For some unknown to me reason, Eastern Europeans refuse to publish books on edged weapons in English. Here's a good recent volume on Polish swords...not in English. https://www.ebay.com/itm/25486890187...IAAOSwM2deP~FI What is a Transylvanian knot?

30th April 2021, 04:01 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Thanks very much Dmitry! good tip on this. The 'Transylvanian knot' is basically a colloquial term for magic/occult/talismanic wording and symbols found on some Eastern European blades. I have never found any good literature on this, but I think Ariel had some reference to it in one of his obscure references on Hungarian swords. The convention is similar to the 'magic' motif and decoration on the Caissagnard blades from Nantes in France 18thc.

1st May 2021, 10:26 PM	#6
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	In addition to what has already been mentioned, I recommend SPLENDEUR DE L'ARMURERIE HONGROISE, a profusely-illustrated 1999 Belgian exhibition catalog of Hungarian arms from the state museums. Scarce, but possible to find. And in a Romance language, not in magyar! Jim, what does this Transylvanian knot look like?