Philippine or Confederate?

Marcus · 18th January 2017, 04:41 PM

I bought this sword from Ian through our swap forum. His identification was as follows:

" This is a dahong palay, so named because the shape of the blade resembles either a rice leaf or a venomous snake of the same name. This is usually a Tagalog (central Luzon) blade form but here it is in Ilocano dress as shown by the brass cross guard and integral ferrule, while the bent tang and shape of the "horse hoof" pommel are consistent with older Ilocano work.

The heavy blade has obvious lamination and appears to have a hardened edge. The blade has been fitted to the hilt perfectly.

Dimensions:
OAL.......... 24 5/8 in
Blade........ 18 3/8 in
Hilt........... 6 1/4 in
Thickness of blade at forte.... 5/16 in
A couple of very small minor areas of damage to the horn hilt. Scratched on the hilt is the name "John Ikaver 1861." The initials "F.S." are incised deeply at forte."

Something that Ian missed is that also scratched on the hilt is “9th Virginia Regt.” (or it could be a crossed 7). Also, I read the name as "John Q. Leaper”.

Once I pointed out the second inscription, based on his identification of the piece as a dahong palay, Ian suggested an association with the US 9th Infantry regiment that fought in the Philippine war. A couple of points challenge that interpretation. The problem is there is no clear connection between "Virginia" and the 9th Regiment that fought in the Philippines. There was a 9th Virginia Regt. in the Continental army. It was formed prior to the Revolution but it was disbanded on November 15, 1783. There was also a 9th Virginia Regt. in the Army of the Confederacy, and that unit was formed in July of 1861, consistent with the date. Incidentally, there was also a 7th Virginia Regt. in the Army of the Confederacy, which was formed in May of 1861.
In any case, by the time of the Philippine war, it was no longer customary to identify US military units with specific states, unless they were volunteer units recruited for specific conflicts, such as the Spanish American War. Furthermore, the US 9th infantry regiment that fought in the Philippines was first formed in Maryland, not Virginia.
All of the above considerations leave me with a sword identified as Philippine, likely from circa 1900. Without the inscriptions one could imagine that came to the US as a trophy or souvenir from the Philippines.
However, what if the inscriptions on the hilt are credible? Is it plausible that this is not from the Philippines at all and really was made by a Virginia blacksmith (F.S.) in 1861?

Rick · 18th January 2017, 06:43 PM

The horse hoof horn pommel and the ferrule/guard are pure Filipino.

Oliver Pinchot · 18th January 2017, 06:58 PM

Forgive me for stating the obvious:
Somewhere in its recent history, someone scratched the inscription into
the grip in order to pass it off as a Confederate sidearm.

kai · 18th January 2017, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Forgive me for stating the obvious:
Somewhere in its recent history, someone scratched the inscription into
the grip in order to pass it off as a Confederate sidearm.

I'm with you, Oliver! I did not saw that you already answered since I got sidetracked and took a while to complete my post...

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 18th January 2017, 09:37 PM

I'm in agreement so far 👍

Marcus · 18th January 2017, 09:45 PM

They might have done better if they had etched "9th Manchu Regt." and made the date 1901 instead of 1861, then they could have tried to pass it off as associated with in the massacre of Balangiga in Samal, September 28 1901.

kai · 18th January 2017, 07:30 PM

Hello Marcus,

Quote:

Something that Ian missed is that also scratched on the hilt is “9th Virginia Regt.” (or it could be a crossed 7). Also, I read the name as "John Q. Leaper”.
<snip>
However, what if the inscriptions on the hilt are credible? Is it plausible that this is not from the Philippines at all and really was made by a Virginia blacksmith (F.S.) in 1861?

While the year might be explained away by regarding it as a birthdate or some other memento, you seem to be correct, that the inscription doesn't make any sense if placed in the period of US colonial presence in the Philippines.

However, I agree with Ian that this certainly is a Filipino dahong palay. The scratched inscription may point to the US civil war but I doubt that this sloppy inscription would have been put on a good short sword in those times.

AFAIK, quite a few Filipino blades have been offered in the US market as genuine civil war artefacts to solicit a much higher selling price; I believe the most likely explanation for this enigma is that someone wanted to bolster the civil war attribution and added a fake inscription...

Regards,
Kai

18th January 2017, 04:41 PM	#1
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Philippine or Confederate? I bought this sword from Ian through our swap forum. His identification was as follows: " This is a dahong palay, so named because the shape of the blade resembles either a rice leaf or a venomous snake of the same name. This is usually a Tagalog (central Luzon) blade form but here it is in Ilocano dress as shown by the brass cross guard and integral ferrule, while the bent tang and shape of the "horse hoof" pommel are consistent with older Ilocano work. The heavy blade has obvious lamination and appears to have a hardened edge. The blade has been fitted to the hilt perfectly. Dimensions: OAL.......... 24 5/8 in Blade........ 18 3/8 in Hilt........... 6 1/4 in Thickness of blade at forte.... 5/16 in A couple of very small minor areas of damage to the horn hilt. Scratched on the hilt is the name "John Ikaver 1861." The initials "F.S." are incised deeply at forte." Something that Ian missed is that also scratched on the hilt is “9th Virginia Regt.” (or it could be a crossed 7). Also, I read the name as "John Q. Leaper”. Once I pointed out the second inscription, based on his identification of the piece as a dahong palay, Ian suggested an association with the US 9th Infantry regiment that fought in the Philippine war. A couple of points challenge that interpretation. The problem is there is no clear connection between "Virginia" and the 9th Regiment that fought in the Philippines. There was a 9th Virginia Regt. in the Continental army. It was formed prior to the Revolution but it was disbanded on November 15, 1783. There was also a 9th Virginia Regt. in the Army of the Confederacy, and that unit was formed in July of 1861, consistent with the date. Incidentally, there was also a 7th Virginia Regt. in the Army of the Confederacy, which was formed in May of 1861. In any case, by the time of the Philippine war, it was no longer customary to identify US military units with specific states, unless they were volunteer units recruited for specific conflicts, such as the Spanish American War. Furthermore, the US 9th infantry regiment that fought in the Philippines was first formed in Maryland, not Virginia. All of the above considerations leave me with a sword identified as Philippine, likely from circa 1900. Without the inscriptions one could imagine that came to the US as a trophy or souvenir from the Philippines. However, what if the inscriptions on the hilt are credible? Is it plausible that this is not from the Philippines at all and really was made by a Virginia blacksmith (F.S.) in 1861? Attached Images

18th January 2017, 06:43 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The horse hoof horn pommel and the ferrule/guard are pure Filipino.

18th January 2017, 06:58 PM	#3
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Forgive me for stating the obvious: Somewhere in its recent history, someone scratched the inscription into the grip in order to pass it off as a Confederate sidearm.

18th January 2017, 09:37 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I'm in agreement so far 👍

18th January 2017, 09:45 PM	#6
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	They might have done better if they had etched "9th Manchu Regt." and made the date 1901 instead of 1861, then they could have tried to pass it off as associated with in the massacre of Balangiga in Samal, September 28 1901.