British made Tulwars.

Norman McCormick · 29th June 2009, 04:33 PM

Hi,
Mr Robert Wilkinson Latham of the Wilkinson family has kindly supplied me with the following information which I'm sure some members will find interesting.
Regards,
Norman.
P.S. Please download the file at the end of the post.

N.B. Mr R.W.Latham owns the copyright to the drawing/image of the Wilkinson Tulwar hilt.

Jeff D · 29th June 2009, 04:51 PM

Thank you Norman and Robert,

Do you have any of the measurements? I can partially see one one the boarder.

All the Best
Jeff

Norman McCormick · 29th June 2009, 05:00 PM

Hi Jeff,
Try again and download the file I think it is all on this time, sizes and weights are there.
My Regards,
Norman.

Jeff D · 29th June 2009, 05:06 PM

Got it!

This is great information thanks again for sharing it!!

Jeff

Jens Nordlunde · 29th June 2009, 05:54 PM

Thank you Norman, and thank you to Mr. Latham, this is very interesting.
I would also like to know about the measures, and if all the swords were marked Wilkinson. If they were was the marking only on the blade, or also on the hilt?
There are old palm leaves from India, showing hilts, which the customers could order. Often they show decoration as well, so maybe it was not only the different hilt type ,but also the different types of decoration these leaves refet to.

Norman McCormick · 29th June 2009, 06:06 PM

Hi Jens,
Download the file at the bottom of the post, all weights and sizes are there. Robert mentioned in his correspondence that this info may dispel some mistakes of British blade/native Indian made hilt, therefore reading between the lines this would say to me that the blades were marked but the hilts were not. I will endeavour to clarify this point when I can.
My Regards,
Norman.

Berkley · 29th June 2009, 06:30 PM

The downloaded file notes "Also these styles were supplied to the princely States and also individual Trading companies in India for sale etc.". I have often wondered about the origin of the tulwar shown in the 1926-27 catalog from Manton & Co. of Calcutta and Delhi:

This appears to provide a partial answer. The same catalog contains the cryptic entry: "Nepalese Kookries made to our special order, various sizes". As Wilkinson undertook manufacture of the 1951 marked Wilkinson Mk IV Kukris, I wonder if Mr. Wilkinson-Latham has found any reference to older British made kukris of the sort mentioned in the Manton catalog?

katana · 30th June 2009, 12:22 AM

Strangely, 512A is described as a straight bladed Scimitar

Kind regards David

Norman McCormick · 30th June 2009, 09:49 PM

Hi,
Berkley, no record of Kukris made by Wilkinson before MK1V, 132,384 sword proof records, so, if individual one made difficult to tell and most probably not.
There are however details of various Presentation Tulwars made e.g. on July 1879 a Colonel Probyn ordered a ' Steel mounted mamaluke tulwar with wood scabbard and polished steel mounts' for an Indian Prince. I'm hoping more details of the presentation swords may become available in due course. In the meantime here is another Wilkinson drawing for a Tulwar hilt, R.W.Latham copyright, and an extract from a Mole catalogue. Hope you will find these interesting.
Regards,
Norman.
P.S. Stats for sword re the drawing.
Hilt, pommel to bottom of langet 7 1/8 inches
Cross-piece 4 5/8 inches
Blade shoulder (hip under langets) to tip in straight line 30 inches.

Norman McCormick · 30th June 2009, 10:44 PM

Hi,
Details of decoration for a Presentation Tulwar blade 1894.
Regards,
Norman.

Berkley · 30th June 2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hope you will find these interesting.

Very much so, and thank you for scanning and posting them.

Norman McCormick · 1st July 2009, 04:06 PM

Hi,
An interesting drawing of Wilkinson Tulwar scabbard furniture and a partial Proof Entry from 1879.
Regards,
Norman.

sirupate · 1st July 2009, 04:44 PM

Excellent info Norman, very very interesting

trenchwarfare · 1st July 2009, 04:48 PM

On a similar note: Several years ago, I purchased four swords off ebay. All had Indian made blades, with varying dimensions, and markings but, identical leather scabbards. That's where the Tulwar similarity ended. All four had identical cast brass hilts. Ribbed, and very similar to British Baker bayonet hilts. However, each had a very substantial D-guard. Naval cutlasses? Anyone here ever see such an animal? Did anyone here buy them from me? They were all sold to the same person. If I ever get my old computer up and running, I have pictures, somewhere.

29th June 2009, 06:30 PM	#7
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	The downloaded file notes "Also these styles were supplied to the princely States and also individual Trading companies in India for sale etc.". I have often wondered about the origin of the tulwar shown in the 1926-27 catalog from Manton & Co. of Calcutta and Delhi: This appears to provide a partial answer. The same catalog contains the cryptic entry: "Nepalese Kookries made to our special order, various sizes". As Wilkinson undertook manufacture of the 1951 marked Wilkinson Mk IV Kukris, I wonder if Mr. Wilkinson-Latham has found any reference to older British made kukris of the sort mentioned in the Manton catalog? Last edited by Berkley; 29th June 2009 at 07:14 PM.

30th June 2009, 09:49 PM	#9
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Berkley, no record of Kukris made by Wilkinson before MK1V, 132,384 sword proof records, so, if individual one made difficult to tell and most probably not. There are however details of various Presentation Tulwars made e.g. on July 1879 a Colonel Probyn ordered a ' Steel mounted mamaluke tulwar with wood scabbard and polished steel mounts' for an Indian Prince. I'm hoping more details of the presentation swords may become available in due course. In the meantime here is another Wilkinson drawing for a Tulwar hilt, R.W.Latham copyright, and an extract from a Mole catalogue. Hope you will find these interesting. Regards, Norman. P.S. Stats for sword re the drawing. Hilt, pommel to bottom of langet 7 1/8 inches Cross-piece 4 5/8 inches Blade shoulder (hip under langets) to tip in straight line 30 inches. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 30th June 2009 at 10:40 PM.

30th June 2009, 10:44 PM	#10
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Details of decoration for a Presentation Tulwar blade 1894. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

1st July 2009, 04:06 PM	#12
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, An interesting drawing of Wilkinson Tulwar scabbard furniture and a partial Proof Entry from 1879. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

29th June 2009, 04:51 PM	#2
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Thank you Norman and Robert, Do you have any of the measurements? I can partially see one one the boarder. All the Best Jeff

29th June 2009, 05:00 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Jeff, Try again and download the file I think it is all on this time, sizes and weights are there. My Regards, Norman.

29th June 2009, 05:06 PM	#4
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Got it! This is great information thanks again for sharing it!! Jeff

29th June 2009, 05:54 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you Norman, and thank you to Mr. Latham, this is very interesting. I would also like to know about the measures, and if all the swords were marked Wilkinson. If they were was the marking only on the blade, or also on the hilt? There are old palm leaves from India, showing hilts, which the customers could order. Often they show decoration as well, so maybe it was not only the different hilt type ,but also the different types of decoration these leaves refet to.

29th June 2009, 06:06 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Jens, Download the file at the bottom of the post, all weights and sizes are there. Robert mentioned in his correspondence that this info may dispel some mistakes of British blade/native Indian made hilt, therefore reading between the lines this would say to me that the blades were marked but the hilts were not. I will endeavour to clarify this point when I can. My Regards, Norman.

30th June 2009, 12:22 AM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Strangely, 512A is described as a straight bladed Scimitar Kind regards David

1st July 2009, 04:44 PM	#13
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Excellent info Norman, very very interesting

1st July 2009, 04:48 PM	#14
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	On a similar note: Several years ago, I purchased four swords off ebay. All had Indian made blades, with varying dimensions, and markings but, identical leather scabbards. That's where the Tulwar similarity ended. All four had identical cast brass hilts. Ribbed, and very similar to British Baker bayonet hilts. However, each had a very substantial D-guard. Naval cutlasses? Anyone here ever see such an animal? Did anyone here buy them from me? They were all sold to the same person. If I ever get my old computer up and running, I have pictures, somewhere.