Gamble by a member here?

[Tim Simmons]

This has endad. It seems very large and late for the genre.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=140204019153&ssPageName=STRK:ME WA:IT&ih=004

If it was bought by a member could they please show better pictures. Recently I have watched quite a number of Maori weapon like objects go for fairly high prices. I have not been convinced that they are any older than the early 20th century unless I am shown otherwise. Personally I not that knowledgeable as to whether these weapons still had a tribal combat relevance at this time unlike knobkerries and other African clubs. I would be very interested to learn more especially if they still had a ceremonial value. I could be compering the more common with the fine examples shown in various publications? I have a book by those "man at arms" book people and by the latter half of the 19th century the photographs of Maori warriors are mostly wearing european clothes and armed with muskets. Thinking the worst I could say that tourist Maori carving has a long history, I hope to be proved wrong. Something new here I think?

The link appears not to be working, here is the number-140204019153

just trying the link again?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=004

[kahnjar1]

Hi Tim,
This certainly LOOKS Maori to me by the shape and carving style (there are many styles). The club of this general shape is called a WAHAIKA. Age COULD BE 19th Cent but even if it is early 20th Century, you have to remember that we are still a relatively YOUNG country, and our ethnic "brothers" were still fighting the white man and themselves. Some of them still are!!
There are large numbers of "tourist" clubs etc available, and some are VERY good. Check out GOOGLE --Maori Weapons--- and you will see what I mean. Unless you can physically get your hands on the thing, it could be quite hard to judge how genuine it is.
Regards Stuart

[katana]

Was hoping this Wahaika had gone un-noticed ( since it was listed as African) and I was going to pick this up 'for a song'.....no such luck. E-mailed seller and his description of weight etc certainly suggested that this was could be genuine (as in used,probably ceremoniously... late 19thC ? or a 'top of the range' tourist version.
I had previously searched for other examples on the web, most of which were of the tourist variety....this Wahaika was heavier and slightly larger than all of them, and the carving was more of a traditional form.

The Wahaika is one of the many forms of fighting club used by Maori warriors and was reserved for only the highest ranking and most respected fighters. It is often given as a ceremonial piece on special occasions.
The carved figure on the edge represents either a sacred ancestor or the god of war. The Wahaika was held so that the figure faced the warrior so it could see over his shoulder to protect his back. The notch in the front edge of the blade was used to trap an enemy fighters weapon so that it could be twisted away from the body leaving the opponent open to a fatal blow

Many Austrolasian clubs have, recently, been selling at incredibly high prices...

Regards David

[VANDOO]

THE CLUB IS DEFINITELY MAORI AND OF THE WAHAIKA FORM THE SIZE RANGE ON THE MAORI SHORT CLUBS IS FROM 10 TO 20 INCHES APROXIMATELY I ESTIMATE THIS ONE AT 18 INCHES. THE CLUB IS UNUSUAL IN THAT IT HAS A MORE POINTED END RATHER THAN THE USUAL SPATULATE FORM. THERE IS A LESSER ENCOUNTERED MAORI CLUB THE PATUKI THAT HAS A MORE POINTED PADDLE SHAPE TO THE THRUSTING END. THE TIKI OR FIGURE IS UNUSUAL IN THAT THE FIGURE IS USUALLY TOGETHER TOWARD THE HANDLE, THIS EXAMPLE IS EITHER SPLIT HEAD FROM BODY OR PERHAPS IS TWO SEPARATE HEADS? I HOPE SOMEONE IN THE GROUP GOT IT AND WE CAN GET SOME BETTER PICTURES AND INFORMATION. A VERY INTERESTING ITEM PERHAPS A ORIGINAL BUT FROM THE PICTURES I SUSPECT 1930'S CEREMONIAL OR TOURIST. A NICE CLUB AT ANY RATE AND CONSIDERING THE PRICES BEING PAID THESE DAYS NOT A BAD DEAL EVEN IF IT IS A GOOD HEAVY 1930'S MODEL.

FIGURE 28 IS A PATUKI.
FIGURE 29 & 30 ARE KOTIATE
FIGURE 31 ARE VARIATIONS OF THE WAHAIKA FORM

MY PICTURE OF THE PATU FORM DID NOT LOAD TOO LARGE. IT IS THE MOST PLAIN FORM AND IF MADE OF WOOD, BONE OR LESSER STONE IS REFERED TO AS A PATU IF MADE OF JADE IT IS CALLED MERE OR MERE PONAMU AND IS THE MOST HIGHLY RANKED OF ALL CLUBS SHORT OR LONG.

[VANDOO]

I WILL TRY AGAIN TO ADD A PATU FORM, A MERE PONAMU (JADE) AND A KOTIATE PONAMU AND A WAHIKA PONAMU , I DON'T KNOW IF THE LAST TWO JADE FORM CLUBS ARE A OLD FORMS OR SOMETHING MADE LATER SO WEATHER THEY WOULD QUALIFY AS MERE I DON'T KNOW

I HAVE ALSO ADDED TWO PICTURES OF THE ORIGINAL CLUB BEING DISCUSSED FOR REFRENCE.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

MY PICTURE OF THE PATU FORM DID NOT LOAD TOO LARGE.

Barry, Thanks for the info on the cubs. This is obviously an area that you know very well.

I suggest a very good free resizing utility. Easy to use with the Windows operating system. Distributed by Microsoft.

Scroll down the right side for a lot of free downloads. Select "image resizer."

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/d...powertoys.mspx

I use it in the 800x600 size. When I do this, I get the added benefit that it makes the files size less than 100kb when I am resizing a 2mb image. A very useful utility!

[Tim Simmons]

This first picture is very good giving two views of what is to me is a sculptural masterpiece.



I may be a little unrealistic but I just find the price of the reproduction? even if there is some vintage way off sensible, for something lacking the essence which one desires. However I think I am aware that an earliy one/real one may indeed cost many £££££££, thousands sadly.