Barrel dating

[Spiridonov]

Whether there is an error in dating of this trunk? Is the wood original or faked in 19 century As it sometimes happened?

[Matchlock]

Hi, Spiridonov,

This fine handgun is one of the most drastic examples of dating early guns incorrectly in more recent arms history.

It was salvaged from the water at the Kurisches Haff, Poland, in the 19th century. The barrel is of cast copper alloy, the tiller stock is original and hollowed out to receive the ramrod. The item is preserved at the National Museum Wojska Polskiego, Warsaw.

As the swiveling pan cover attached by a screw (neither screws nor pans or pan covers are known before ca. 1500!), and according to the new and transferable dating criteria that I have evolved, a date closely to around 1500 can be fixed.

I attach images of a very similar Nuremberg tiller gun from my collection, retaining its original limewood tiller stock decorated with stamps of flowers and other symbols, just like Gothic book bindings.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

neither screws nor pans or pan covers are known before ca. 1500!

handgonne from Otepaa have pan covers. Adnd many asian handgonnes have too befor 1500
This barrel had pan cover too http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...id=48227&stc=1

[Matchlock]

1. Not one single Asian hand cannon is kown to have actually been cast (they are all cast) before 1500.

2. How did you come and state that this barrel originally had a pan cover?

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

2. How did you come and state that this barrel originally had a pan cover?

Sorry, not pan cover, but touch hole cover

[Spiridonov]

Otepaa seemsed was have touch hole cover. It dated about the end of 14 century

[Paddy T.]

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

handgonne from Otepaa have pan covers

Yes, that´s absolutely correct. Unfortunatelly Mäesalu published only a reconstruction, but I know the look of the real fragments and the real (restored) hangun, too. There definitely is a pan cover.

As I pointed out in the other thread, the terminus ante quem for the Otepää gun isn´t usable any longer, but there is archaeological evidence (which I would prefer instead of other criteria) for dating the destruction of the castle within the 1st half of the 15th century. So the hypothesis of "no pan covers before ca. 1500" seems to be wrong. If you compare the weapon to other finds, there are also some matches, so the Otepää gun can´t be repudiated as a "non central european weapon".

Furthermore, a "trough-like" pan with upturned edges (but without pan cover) is present at the Mörkö-gun, which is dated to the 1st half of the 15th century.