Great Helm late 14th century ?

[Jean-Marc S.]

Hello,

Here are some pics of an antique Great Helm (of the Pembridge type). It was sold for 8,000 £ by a very famous auction house (a long time ago), and expertized as being late 14th century. What is your opinion on this piece ?

Thanks,

jm

[Jean-Marc S.]

[Jean-Marc S.]

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=143313

[A Senefelder]

Well as far as dating goes this " final " development of the great helmet as a piece of field armour ( it would develope further for use in jousting culminating in the big " frog mouthed " tournement helmets of the late 15th century ) are almost universally attributed to " the end of the 14th century " although in truth by the last years of the century they would have been a little dated on the field, houndskulls being " state of the art " at that time. That being said there are a few later examples like that of Sir Nicholas Hauberk ( died 1407 ) which appears to be of the " frog mouthed " jousting type, and Henry V had an early development of the more " frog mouthed " type specifically for jousting, of early 15th century manufacture, although it was not field but " sport " equipment. " Late 14th century " is safe although by the 1390's it would be as I mentioned a bit dated.

[Jean-Marc S.]

Thanks Senefelder

[Jim McDougall]

I knew Alan would have an excellent entry on this, and since this is not at all my field, I wanted to do some research anyway, It is a great opportunity to see one of these rare but distinctive helms, which seem to often be depicted in many illustrations of the knight, it appears on the logo for the Danish Arms & Armour Society.

It would be interesting to know more on exactly what auction and date this one is provenanced. One of these, appararantly considered authentic, was sold by Sothebys, London, 21 May 1974, #185 to the Royal Armouries, and had been owned by Peter Dale Ltd.
It was published in Journal of the Arms & Armour Society in June, 1977, Vol.IX, #1, "An Unrecorded English Helm c.1370" by Derek Spalding (pp.6-9)

Apparantly up to 1974, only two of these helms of this date/period with English provenance were recorded. The most famed of these was the helm of this same form of Edward , Prince of Wales (The Black Prince) c.1376, held in Canterbury Cathedral.
The second (for which the form is apparantly named) is that of Sir Richard Pembridge c.1375, originally at Hereford Cathedral but then to the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh.
The helm of this article is apparantly suggested by Mr. Spalding to be the third helm of this particular 'great helm' form from this specific period.

I am wondering what the source is for the illustrations of the Pembridge helm against a replica posted here. While there are of course a number of modern reproductions of this famous form, it is known that in the 19th century (about 1830s-1878) a Samuel Lake Pratt in London was dealing in then modernly produced items including these type helms (made by someone named Grimshaw). This according to Spalding's footnotes is referenced in "The Knight and Umbrella" by Ian Anstruther, 1963.

It seems I recall an example of one of these 'great helms' among the holdings at the armoury at Castel Sant Angelo at the Vatican as well, but as yet have not found that reference.

This is a fascinating example of these famed helms, and I look forward to hearing more from Jean-Marc and Alan regarding the information from this 1977 article.

All best regards,
Jim


** Found the Castel sant Angelo reference
" Archaeology of Weapons" Ewart Oakeshott, London 1960
p. 263, a great helm from Bozen (S. Tyrol) c.1280-1310 (fig. 129)
This one has a flat top and riveted band, the 'breathing holes' in pattern on the front sides are T shaped, and this seems to be a German type.

There was another article written in these I believe in "Man at Arms" magazine, but as yet have not located.