Oddball Russian(?) Needle for comment

kronckew · 17th May 2019, 10:58 AM

Just acquired this odd needley very pointy short sword sold as 'Russian' from 1870. 77 cm. long.

Blade decorations look older - date on blade 1?70, the vendor's assume an 8, but it looks older to me.

Any Ideas/Comments welcome, with my thanks.

ariel · 17th May 2019, 12:02 PM

I can see nothing “Russian” here. The inscription is definitely not in Russian, and I would not exclude the possibility that it might be either a meaningless imitation of Arabic lettering or a work of an illiterate engraver not acquainted with traditional calligraphy. Islamic source is unlikely: numbers are not Arabic.
Also, nothing Russian in the engraved decorative figure on the blade.
With all the limitations inherent in photographic image, I would read the date as 1910.

Overall, it is either an equivalent of an Indian Gupti or a horsewhip handle. I tend to think that the former might be more realistic.

I would put it somewhere in the Balkans. The carefully formed notch ( kind of a fingerstall) at the top of the handle is frequently found on Balkan knives.

My 2 cents.

kronckew · 17th May 2019, 01:08 PM

Seam on the scabbard looks Turkish. the decorations also have a Turkish look to me but look like an earlier primitive style. Horned sea horse one side. writing looksmore latinish. Better pics when it arrives.

Definitely doesn't look Russian to me either.

NE Balkan a possibility. Needs a bit of TLC, maybe it'll talk to me when it gets here. might have Arya Stark's Dire wolf stamped on it.

Jim McDougall · 17th May 2019, 11:24 PM

Obviously not a standard sword form, but a repurposing of a blade with what seems like a knife handle. The blade seems almost like straight blades of estoc/mec thrusting type. I would agree with Wayne's idea of Balkan, especially with the Ottoman element, as noted with the scabbard stitching.
The unusual motif and its designs seem in line with sometimes almost whimsical 18th century mysterious character, the sea horses are something seen in Italian and probably Adriatic themes.

Wayne, I like your note on the sword taking to you when it arrives, you really get it man!!!! It is like they do in their way.

kahnjar1 · 18th May 2019, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Seam on the scabbard looks Turkish. the decorations also have a Turkish look to me but look like an earlier primitive style. Horned sea horse one side. writing looksmore latinish. Better pics when it arrives.

Definitely doesn't look Russian to me either.

NE Balkan a possibility. Needs a bit of TLC, maybe it'll talk to me when it gets here. might have Arya Stark's Dire wolf stamped on it.

Yep Arya had a nice little sword...maybe now the series is over she has no further use for it and has had it rehilted

kronckew · 18th May 2019, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Yep Arya had a nice little sword...maybe now the series is over she has no further use for it and has had it rehilted

I stopped watching it way back when they killed Richard Sharpe.

Hotspur · 18th May 2019, 11:06 PM

A swagger stick, no? From a Africa to the Chosin, popular with officers.

Cheers
GC

17th May 2019, 10:58 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	Oddball Russian(?) Needle for comment Just acquired this odd needley very pointy short sword sold as 'Russian' from 1870. 77 cm. long. Blade decorations look older - date on blade 1?70, the vendor's assume an 8, but it looks older to me. Any Ideas/Comments welcome, with my thanks. Attached Images

17th May 2019, 12:02 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I can see nothing “Russian” here. The inscription is definitely not in Russian, and I would not exclude the possibility that it might be either a meaningless imitation of Arabic lettering or a work of an illiterate engraver not acquainted with traditional calligraphy. Islamic source is unlikely: numbers are not Arabic. Also, nothing Russian in the engraved decorative figure on the blade. With all the limitations inherent in photographic image, I would read the date as 1910. Overall, it is either an equivalent of an Indian Gupti or a horsewhip handle. I tend to think that the former might be more realistic. I would put it somewhere in the Balkans. The carefully formed notch ( kind of a fingerstall) at the top of the handle is frequently found on Balkan knives. My 2 cents. Last edited by ariel; 17th May 2019 at 12:21 PM.

17th May 2019, 01:08 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	Seam on the scabbard looks Turkish. the decorations also have a Turkish look to me but look like an earlier primitive style. Horned sea horse one side. writing looksmore latinish. Better pics when it arrives. Definitely doesn't look Russian to me either. NE Balkan a possibility. Needs a bit of TLC, maybe it'll talk to me when it gets here. might have Arya Stark's Dire wolf stamped on it. Last edited by kronckew; 17th May 2019 at 01:23 PM.

17th May 2019, 11:24 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Obviously not a standard sword form, but a repurposing of a blade with what seems like a knife handle. The blade seems almost like straight blades of estoc/mec thrusting type. I would agree with Wayne's idea of Balkan, especially with the Ottoman element, as noted with the scabbard stitching. The unusual motif and its designs seem in line with sometimes almost whimsical 18th century mysterious character, the sea horses are something seen in Italian and probably Adriatic themes. Wayne, I like your note on the sword taking to you when it arrives, you really get it man!!!! It is like they do in their way.

18th May 2019, 11:06 PM	#7
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	A swagger stick, no? From a Africa to the Chosin, popular with officers. Cheers GC