Cinderella & Dewi Sri

A. G. Maisey · 13th March 2009, 02:21 AM

In the recent past I was living in a foriegn country for a while.

Whilst I was there I met three ladies whom I am almost certain show the cross-cultural influences of European story telling on Javanese myth and legend.

Gentlemen, and ladies too, I give you The Three Ugly Sisters:-

A. G. Maisey · 13th March 2009, 02:26 AM

These wonderfully crafted keris hilts have been made from "Majapahit glass".

The original of this material appears as very old glass beads, supposedly from Majapahit times. If they are indeed original beads, they bring quite high prices.

There are a lot of recent imitation beads on the market that are almost impossible to differentiate from the originals. Some entreprenuer used this same material and produced these small figures in the form of keris hilts.This is the first time I have seen this sort of thing.

Rick · 13th March 2009, 02:51 AM

Contemporary work using old glass .

D'you suppose there were glass jejeran in Majapahit times ?

A. G. Maisey · 13th March 2009, 03:46 AM

No, its new glass, made in an old style.

No, I do not believe that glass hilts existed previous to these ones.

There are a few examples of unique hilt types around. I've seen one made of porcelain, I've seen another from jade. These are the first I've ever seen from glass.

drdavid · 13th March 2009, 08:03 AM

Well Alan,
for me the two key words are Unique and Ugly. Still cant blame the maker for having a go at something new.
David

A. G. Maisey · 13th March 2009, 09:17 AM

Yes David, but beauty walks a razors edge, and sometimes it is bound to cross the line. (sorry Bob)

asomotif · 13th March 2009, 09:51 AM

Dear Alan,

How does the bottom of these hilts look ?
Are they intended to be used with a mendak or uwer ?

Best regards,
Willem

Marcokeris · 13th March 2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

No, its new glass, made in an old style.

No, I do not believe that glass hilts existed previous to these ones.

There are a few examples of unique hilt types around. I've seen one made of porcelain, I've seen another from jade. These are the first I've ever seen from glass.

These keris hits

are made by "pelangi" (rainbow) glass. This type of glass in Jawa is around 900 AD. About this type of glass there is a very very nice bahasa/english book "Manik Manik di Indonesia-Beads in Indonesia" .
In Indonesia (Balì and Yogia) i saw many hits made by "fiberglass" ...sometimes (Balì) covered with oil paint.
IMO about the quality of these three hits...from the pic they see not so good.

Amuk Murugul · 13th March 2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

No, its new glass, made in an old style.

No, I do not believe that glass hilts existed previous to these ones.

There are a few examples of unique hilt types around. I've seen one made of porcelain, I've seen another from jade. These are the first I've ever seen from glass.

Hullo Alan,

I very recently, saw a crystal hilt for sale at a European Art Gallery/Auction House ( I think). As it didn't interest me at the time, I only glanced at it and noted that it was labelled as a crystal keris hilt. It's general shape reminded me of a flared Tapak Koeda.

Best,

A. G. Maisey · 13th March 2009, 11:53 PM

David, R.A. Zimmerman is in my opinion probably the greatest 20th century poet. He never needed to be able to sing to become a historical figure, but the fact that he can vocalise what he writes is a plus. In spite of what many people think of as deficiencies in his presentation, the man has been an absolutely brilliant musician for the best part of his life. Early in his career he went from Mr. Average to Mr. Exceptional. This change occurred in a very brief period of time, and if you were following him at that time, it was almost as if an alien had decided to take possession of his body. Anyway, he's a bit like Old Will---got a line that cover everything.

Yeah Marco, some people call it pelangi glass, others call it something else, and it has been around for a long time. However, it is only in recent years, perhaps the last 15 or 20, that it has started to be produced again. If you bought a bead of this stuff back in the 1960's and 1970's it was most likely the real thing. If you bought it anywhere from about 1988 forwards, it was probably newly made.

In respect of the quality of these hilts.
Marco, being the connoisseur of keris art that I know you to be, I would not expect that the provincial---no, correction:- primitive craftsmanship demonstrated by the maker of these hilts would impress you.

But answer me one question:- have you ever seen this material used previously for the production of a keris hilt?

I have not, and not having such finely developed artistic taste as do you, I personally find them quite charming.

As for fibreglass handles, well that material has been around in Indonesia for as long as surf boards have been parked on Kuta Beach. I've seen and handled some synthetic productions that were so good that I had to take them into direct sunlight, in order to know that I was not handling ivory.

Manik2 is a real good book. I tried to get it everywhere when it first came out, and finished up buying it in Jogja airport. My wife has a pretty big collection of beads, so it was required reading.

This is what the beads look like:-

Marcokeris · 14th March 2009, 01:10 AM

[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey]
But answer me one question:- have you ever seen this material used previously for the production of a keris hilt?

Of course not. I saw magma from vulcano becames a keris hit..or terracotta ...or white stone...or amber turn into a hit. But never this kind of (Venice?) glass.
Honestly i dont like these glass hits but, of course, is my personal taste.
About Zimmerman ...i don't know this poet ...or musician. But I know very well an astonishing australian musician: Paul Schutze that, together some others modern american musicians (Cage, Newby, Nerel) and an old european musician (Debussy), carried on the "indonesian gamelan music" in the haven.

13th March 2009, 02:21 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Cinderella & Dewi Sri In the recent past I was living in a foriegn country for a while. Whilst I was there I met three ladies whom I am almost certain show the cross-cultural influences of European story telling on Javanese myth and legend. Gentlemen, and ladies too, I give you The Three Ugly Sisters:- Attached Images

13th March 2009, 11:53 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	David, R.A. Zimmerman is in my opinion probably the greatest 20th century poet. He never needed to be able to sing to become a historical figure, but the fact that he can vocalise what he writes is a plus. In spite of what many people think of as deficiencies in his presentation, the man has been an absolutely brilliant musician for the best part of his life. Early in his career he went from Mr. Average to Mr. Exceptional. This change occurred in a very brief period of time, and if you were following him at that time, it was almost as if an alien had decided to take possession of his body. Anyway, he's a bit like Old Will---got a line that cover everything. Yeah Marco, some people call it pelangi glass, others call it something else, and it has been around for a long time. However, it is only in recent years, perhaps the last 15 or 20, that it has started to be produced again. If you bought a bead of this stuff back in the 1960's and 1970's it was most likely the real thing. If you bought it anywhere from about 1988 forwards, it was probably newly made. In respect of the quality of these hilts. Marco, being the connoisseur of keris art that I know you to be, I would not expect that the provincial---no, correction:- primitive craftsmanship demonstrated by the maker of these hilts would impress you. But answer me one question:- have you ever seen this material used previously for the production of a keris hilt? I have not, and not having such finely developed artistic taste as do you, I personally find them quite charming. As for fibreglass handles, well that material has been around in Indonesia for as long as surf boards have been parked on Kuta Beach. I've seen and handled some synthetic productions that were so good that I had to take them into direct sunlight, in order to know that I was not handling ivory. Manik2 is a real good book. I tried to get it everywhere when it first came out, and finished up buying it in Jogja airport. My wife has a pretty big collection of beads, so it was required reading. This is what the beads look like:- Attached Images Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 14th March 2009 at 12:39 AM.

13th March 2009, 02:26 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	These wonderfully crafted keris hilts have been made from "Majapahit glass". The original of this material appears as very old glass beads, supposedly from Majapahit times. If they are indeed original beads, they bring quite high prices. There are a lot of recent imitation beads on the market that are almost impossible to differentiate from the originals. Some entreprenuer used this same material and produced these small figures in the form of keris hilts.This is the first time I have seen this sort of thing.

13th March 2009, 02:51 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Contemporary work using old glass . D'you suppose there were glass jejeran in Majapahit times ?

13th March 2009, 03:46 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	No, its new glass, made in an old style. No, I do not believe that glass hilts existed previous to these ones. There are a few examples of unique hilt types around. I've seen one made of porcelain, I've seen another from jade. These are the first I've ever seen from glass.

13th March 2009, 08:03 AM	#5
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Well Alan, for me the two key words are Unique and Ugly. Still cant blame the maker for having a go at something new. David

13th March 2009, 09:17 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes David, but beauty walks a razors edge, and sometimes it is bound to cross the line. (sorry Bob)

13th March 2009, 09:51 AM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Dear Alan, How does the bottom of these hilts look ? Are they intended to be used with a mendak or uwer ? Best regards, Willem

14th March 2009, 01:10 AM	#11
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	[QUOTE=A. G. Maisey] But answer me one question:- have you ever seen this material used previously for the production of a keris hilt? Of course not. I saw magma from vulcano becames a keris hit..or terracotta ...or white stone...or amber turn into a hit. But never this kind of (Venice?) glass. Honestly i dont like these glass hits but, of course, is my personal taste. About Zimmerman ...i don't know this poet ...or musician. But I know very well an astonishing australian musician: Paul Schutze that, together some others modern american musicians (Cage, Newby, Nerel) and an old european musician (Debussy), carried on the "indonesian gamelan music" in the haven.