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KRMH Triadi · 24th August 2006, 02:06 PM

Hi everybody, I am new to this site, so should congratulate you all first for this wonderful site. I have a question that maybe some you could help me with, is it true that there was a "missing type" from Majapahit era? and is it possible that a type of spear made to be keris?
I do apologize for my poor english and hopefully will not offend anybody.

Best regards

David · 24th August 2006, 04:04 PM

Welcome to the forum.

I think it might be helpful if you could elaborate on your questions a bit. By "missing type" do you mean a type of keris from mojopahit that has never been seen. Other's might know more about this but it is not a story i have heard up til now.
As for spears (tombak) they are often mounted in dagger style dress instead of on spear shafts and i have seen spears mounted in keris dress, though it is my understanding that that would be the incorrect way to dress a tombak. Is that what you mean or do you mean are keris ever mounted on spear shafts to be used as spears. That i have not seen.

VVV · 24th August 2006, 05:44 PM

Triadi,

Are you referring to the discussion in Woolley's article - The Malay Keris It's Origin and Development?
In this article he discuss a theory from Williams' article - Suggested Origin of the Malay Keris - that the Keris was developed from an earlier Malay spear weapon. But Woolley seems to think that Williams' arguments are "unconvincing".

Michael

KRMH Triadi · 24th August 2006, 08:03 PM

Once again I apologize for my poor english, the keris I refer to my statement before was a Trisula but with a lower part of regular keris, not spear. I am trying to have a good pic to show what I mean, since this keris is now my own personal keris that I have to wear on every court ceremonial in Keraton. I would love to have more disscussion regarding my keris since I am very new to keris world. I will try to have better pics with much better focus on close-ups.
Best regards

David · 24th August 2006, 08:31 PM

I have seen this dapur before on many ocassions, but i am afraid i have very little information on it's purpose or meaning. I do not, however, believe that this form was created with the intention of it ever being presented as a spear. Many of the examples i have seen have been obviously revision pieces cut from old keris. I have only ever seen them in photographs and have never handled one, but perhaps some of our more learned forumites know more about them.
Would you mind sharing with us what your duties at kraton ceremonies are?

KRMH Triadi · 25th August 2006, 05:21 AM

This keris has been in my family since my great, great grandfather and now it is my turn to hold it. I was hoping that I can have more information regarding it, like I said, I have soo little knowledge about keris but starting now I have to learn so much more.
I just got married last year with the oldest daughter of Sri Susuhunan Pakoe Boewono XIII of Surakarta (which I did not realize when we were going out...hehehe). So from now on I have to attend all the royal ceremony in Keraton including Jumenengan, Suro, Grebeg etc. Then my family said that I have to start wearing my family pusaka for it. These are my reason I joined this forum, so I can learned more about keris and hopefully I can share what I gain from my new family in Solo.
Best regards

Boedhi Adhitya · 26th August 2006, 09:56 AM

Sugeng siang, Kanjeng Triadi,

Regarding your keris, as any good book on dhapur keep silent about this dhapur, I suggest we must put it in Dhapur Palawija/Kalawija terminology. About pamor Prabu Hayam Wuruk, well, I haven't heard or read about it either. In fact, it is the first time I encounter the 'pamor hayam wuruk' terminology. As you have access to royal collections, I suggest you to learn from those collections. Just watch, remember the 'character' and find the keris which match it. I believe you live in Surakarta, so could joint the local keris devotee association, Pasupati. I heard there is a keris exhibition on Pagelaran Keraton Surakarta, 26 August - 9 September. You may take a look then.

Just my curiosity, as your keris mounted in Jogjakarta's Gayaman sheath/warangka, it is appropiate to wear it on Surakarta Court's ceremonies ? Did someone had changed the Warangka ? I expect for Surakartas style warangka/sheath/mounting for Mangkunegara/Surakarta royal families heirlooms, as Jogjakarta royal families never had a Surakarta sheath, for obvious reason. I do apologize for my unpoliteness.

Best Regards,

Boedhi Adhitya

David · 26th August 2006, 05:27 PM

Thanks for you imput Boedhi. I have also had a problem finding this dapur in any book on keris. I think i understand your meaning, but just to be clear could you possible define the term "Palawija/Kalawija" for us? Thanks.

I would also think that for ceremonial dress Triadi would want the ladrang (formal) form of sheath as opposed to the gayaman form, yes?

KRMH Triadi · 28th August 2006, 05:42 AM

Hi Boedhi

I know my sheath is Jogja's but since that I am a new member of the court, so I have not received any suggestion yet about my attire during the ceremony. I intend to figure out it by myself hehehe..., then maybe I should change the sheath to Solo's one. I also have that information about the exhibition, but I live in Jakarta since my work is in Jakarta. I am looking for a good "red wood" somebody's told me, so I can dress my keris with it since now I am an immediate family to the king. Thank you very much for the information, I gain a lot from all of you...

Best regards

A. G. Maisey · 29th August 2006, 01:21 AM

My warmest greetings, Kanjeng Triadi.

You may live in Jakarta, but as a member of the Surakarta Court , you have access to the personal advice of a number of people who are very learned in keris knowledge, and in the correct way in which to conduct ones self at court.

I most humbly suggest that at your earliest opportunity you seek out a senior member of the court and request his guidance.

You are now faced with responsibilities that go far beyond those raised by your initial enquiry in this Forum, and it would seem to me that you do need assistance in order to acquit yourself honourably in your new environment.

At certain times in our lives we all need a mentor, perhaps a little quiet reflection may indicate to you that you have reached a time in your life when you need to seek this mentor.

Boedhi Adhitya · 29th August 2006, 07:50 AM

Hi David,

According to the Javanese 'traditional consensus', a keris which had luk more than 13 or had an 'odd shape' could be classified in general term as 'Palawija/Kalawija', while it may has it's own specific dhapur such as Kala Bendhu (luk-29). I prefer, and believe, the correct term should be 'Palawija', the term came from agricultural language which means the crops other than 'main crops' such as peanuts or cassava, other than rice, which usually planted in ricefield after the rice had been harvested. It is interval crops between two rice's planting season.
Thus, dhapur Palawijas are dhapurs other than 'main dhapurs'. It is believed to be reserved for those who have 'unusual purpose' or 'extraordinary characteristic' such as an artist. It is not necessarily good nor bad, it is just 'unusual'. When assessing such kerises, I suggest we assess the authenticity and workmanship first, while the 'uniqueness' come last. Please do not extend this 'consensus' to other cultures, as they may had other standards. In fact, a keris with luk more than 13 quite often in Bali's blades.

Regarding Kanjeng Triadi's, I couldn't gave any comment as I had not handle it personally. If we encounter this kind of keris, authenticy should always came as the first issue. But since Kanjeng Triadi inherited this, I believe authenticity is not an issue for he himself.

About the sheath, yes, I agree with you David, Ladrang (or Branggah for Jogjakarta's similar style) would be the 'all-seasons' keris sheath, hard to be wrong when you wear it. It is OK to wear the ladrang in informal situation, it is just you have to be very careful not to chip the tip of it (which may cost you a lot of tears

). Gayaman, the more 'casual' and robust sheath, may allow you to became active/work. The Jogjakarta's court abdi dalem usually wear Gayaman on their daily attendance for this reason. (Some may wear Branggah also, and OK).

Kanjeng Triadi,

I absolutely agree with Alan's suggestion. Just an addition, as you live in Jakarta, you probably may contact 'Panji Nusantara', the Jakarta-based keris devotee association ( panjinusantara@yahoo.com ) or Damartaji. Please use your senses, never buy stories and be very careful if it start to involve money. Not everyone honest. And neither do I

What kind of 'red wood' do you mean? Did you mean 'red-lacquered pendok' instead ? IMHO, traditionally, there would be only 3 kinds of wood prefered : Sandalwood, Timoho, and Trembalo. In Surakarta sheath, I would love to have a sandalwood gandar iras sheath. I seen several good-cut,newly made sandalwood and ivory ladrangs (both are not gandar iras, especially the ivory, off course) last June in Kompas exhibiton last June. You may go after them, if you wish.

best regards,

boedhi adhitya

Kiai Carita · 5th September 2006, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

Sugeng siang, Kanjeng Triadi,

Regarding your keris, as any good book on dhapur keep silent about this dhapur, I suggest we must put it in Dhapur Palawija/Kalawija terminology. About pamor Prabu Hayam Wuruk, well, I haven't heard or read about it either. In fact, it is the first time I encounter the 'pamor hayam wuruk' terminology. ....

Boedhi Adhitya

Nuwun sewu, I am a newbie in keris, but according to the Ensiklopedi (Pak Bambang alm) this dhapur is called dhapur owah-owahan rather than a kalawijan. Pak Bambang notes that in the 1970s many people vandalised old keris and made owah-owahan (changes). Again according to Pak Bambang (and personal experience) these types of keris are mostly distributed through the network of dukuns and all have legends attached to them, often concerning historical heroes to capture the imagination.

I am very sorry to have to say this, as I understand it is very wrong to give a negative comment to a Jawanese man's keris. But the literature around, in my humble opinion, would generally agree that this is not a 'real' dhapur. Because it is not a real dhapur the story attached, that it goes back to the early days of Mataram Surakarta is also suspect. I appologise for my rudeness in advance, Kanjeng Triadi.

Special to Kanjeng Triadi, congratulations in joining back to the royal family of Surakarta. Before the Republic my father and his lineage were also connected to the royal family and my grandmother's best friend lived inside the Kraton in Solo. I remember playing there with my sister looking for sawo kecik or looking at the kereta, all before the kraton burned down, of course.

I heard there are now two kings in Solo is it true? Which one do you belong to? I hope the problem gets resolved soon and whoever supports the arts and crafts of Surakarta will have my outmost support.

Nuwun sewu,
Bram.

A. G. Maisey · 5th September 2006, 11:51 PM

Pak Boedhi has given an explanation of his understanding of the roots of the term "kalawijan", applied to this keris type. However, there is another meaning to "kalawijan".

"Kalawijan" is from "kalawija" which is a variation on "palawija", and "palawija" can mean the second, dry season crop, or it can mean the deformed servants who used to be maintained in Javanese royal palaces.

Since this keris form is clearly a deformed keris, I would suggest that perhaps the second way in which "kalawijan" can be understood may be a more appropriate application than the reference to a second crop.

However, it can be easily understood how reference to them as a "second crop" could also be valid.

The term "owah-owahan" is more a description of this blade type, than a dapur classification.

"owah-owahan" means "a change".

These blades are also referred to as "robahan", which again is Javanese , and also means "a change".

In Indonesian this would be "ubahan", or the more usual variation of this same word:- "rubahan".

In my experience, most people refer to blades like this one as "robahan", which once again, as with owah-owahan and ubahan/rubahan, is a description, not a dapur.

In fact, all these ways in which to refer to these types of blades, are descriptions, rather than dapurs.

When we say that a blade is this dapur, or that dapur, what we are saying is that the blade conforms to a certain set type. That set type may be interpreted differently by various people, but pattern books held in palace repositories should be taken as the final defining authority on what is a legitimate dapur, and what is not a legitimate dapur.

Quite simply, if a blade form does not appear in a palace pattern book, it cannot be said to have any dapur.It has become "di luar pakem".

Yes, there are two claimants to the throne of Surakarta Hadiningrat.
This problem arose because Pakubuwana XII never named a first wife, and because of this there can be no successor on a basis of tradition.
The two claimants each have documents to support their claim, and one has possession of the Kraton and has been installed in the Kraton as ruler. The other ---who appears to have been a little too much of a gentleman at the crucial moment--- has had himself declared as the new ruler.

This link will give an overview of the situation:-

http://walah.multiply.com/journal/item/32

Kiai Carita · 6th September 2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

"Kalawijan" is from "kalawija" which is a variation on "palawija", and "palawija" can mean the second, dry season crop, or it can mean the deformed servants who used to be maintained in Javanese royal palaces.

Nuwun sewu, Pak Alan, but I believe that if in Solo the abdi dhalem palawijan may only used to be maintained, in Ngayogyakarta Hadiningrat the Ngersa nDhalem Sampeyan nDhalem Hingkang Sinuhun Sultan Hamengkubawana Kalipatullah Sayidin Panatagama Kaping X, to this day still has the support of the abdi dhalem palawijan.

Salam hangat,
Bram.

A. G. Maisey · 7th September 2006, 01:40 AM

Thank you for your advice in respect of the situation in the Ngayogyakerta keraton, Pak Bram.
Yes, admittedly, my knowledge is limited to the Surakarta situation, and this is not first hand knowledge but what I have been told by abdi dalem during the last 20 years or so.

24th August 2006, 02:06 PM	#1
KRMH Triadi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indonesia Posts: 7	New member Hi everybody, I am new to this site, so should congratulate you all first for this wonderful site. I have a question that maybe some you could help me with, is it true that there was a "missing type" from Majapahit era? and is it possible that a type of spear made to be keris? I do apologize for my poor english and hopefully will not offend anybody. Best regards

24th August 2006, 08:03 PM	#4
KRMH Triadi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indonesia Posts: 7	Once again I apologize for my poor english, the keris I refer to my statement before was a Trisula but with a lower part of regular keris, not spear. I am trying to have a good pic to show what I mean, since this keris is now my own personal keris that I have to wear on every court ceremonial in Keraton. I would love to have more disscussion regarding my keris since I am very new to keris world. I will try to have better pics with much better focus on close-ups. Best regards Attached Images

5th September 2006, 11:51 PM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Pak Boedhi has given an explanation of his understanding of the roots of the term "kalawijan", applied to this keris type. However, there is another meaning to "kalawijan". "Kalawijan" is from "kalawija" which is a variation on "palawija", and "palawija" can mean the second, dry season crop, or it can mean the deformed servants who used to be maintained in Javanese royal palaces. Since this keris form is clearly a deformed keris, I would suggest that perhaps the second way in which "kalawijan" can be understood may be a more appropriate application than the reference to a second crop. However, it can be easily understood how reference to them as a "second crop" could also be valid. The term "owah-owahan" is more a description of this blade type, than a dapur classification. "owah-owahan" means "a change". These blades are also referred to as "robahan", which again is Javanese , and also means "a change". In Indonesian this would be "ubahan", or the more usual variation of this same word:- "rubahan". In my experience, most people refer to blades like this one as "robahan", which once again, as with owah-owahan and ubahan/rubahan, is a description, not a dapur. In fact, all these ways in which to refer to these types of blades, are descriptions, rather than dapurs. When we say that a blade is this dapur, or that dapur, what we are saying is that the blade conforms to a certain set type. That set type may be interpreted differently by various people, but pattern books held in palace repositories should be taken as the final defining authority on what is a legitimate dapur, and what is not a legitimate dapur. Quite simply, if a blade form does not appear in a palace pattern book, it cannot be said to have any dapur.It has become "di luar pakem". Yes, there are two claimants to the throne of Surakarta Hadiningrat. This problem arose because Pakubuwana XII never named a first wife, and because of this there can be no successor on a basis of tradition. The two claimants each have documents to support their claim, and one has possession of the Kraton and has been installed in the Kraton as ruler. The other ---who appears to have been a little too much of a gentleman at the crucial moment--- has had himself declared as the new ruler. This link will give an overview of the situation:- http://walah.multiply.com/journal/item/32 Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 6th September 2006 at 12:02 AM.

24th August 2006, 04:04 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Welcome to the forum. I think it might be helpful if you could elaborate on your questions a bit. By "missing type" do you mean a type of keris from mojopahit that has never been seen. Other's might know more about this but it is not a story i have heard up til now. As for spears (tombak) they are often mounted in dagger style dress instead of on spear shafts and i have seen spears mounted in keris dress, though it is my understanding that that would be the incorrect way to dress a tombak. Is that what you mean or do you mean are keris ever mounted on spear shafts to be used as spears. That i have not seen.

24th August 2006, 05:44 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Triadi, Are you referring to the discussion in Woolley's article - The Malay Keris It's Origin and Development? In this article he discuss a theory from Williams' article - Suggested Origin of the Malay Keris - that the Keris was developed from an earlier Malay spear weapon. But Woolley seems to think that Williams' arguments are "unconvincing". Michael

24th August 2006, 08:31 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I have seen this dapur before on many ocassions, but i am afraid i have very little information on it's purpose or meaning. I do not, however, believe that this form was created with the intention of it ever being presented as a spear. Many of the examples i have seen have been obviously revision pieces cut from old keris. I have only ever seen them in photographs and have never handled one, but perhaps some of our more learned forumites know more about them. Would you mind sharing with us what your duties at kraton ceremonies are?

25th August 2006, 05:21 AM	#6
KRMH Triadi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indonesia Posts: 7	This keris has been in my family since my great, great grandfather and now it is my turn to hold it. I was hoping that I can have more information regarding it, like I said, I have soo little knowledge about keris but starting now I have to learn so much more. I just got married last year with the oldest daughter of Sri Susuhunan Pakoe Boewono XIII of Surakarta (which I did not realize when we were going out...hehehe). So from now on I have to attend all the royal ceremony in Keraton including Jumenengan, Suro, Grebeg etc. Then my family said that I have to start wearing my family pusaka for it. These are my reason I joined this forum, so I can learned more about keris and hopefully I can share what I gain from my new family in Solo. Best regards

26th August 2006, 09:56 AM	#7
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Sugeng siang, Kanjeng Triadi, Regarding your keris, as any good book on dhapur keep silent about this dhapur, I suggest we must put it in Dhapur Palawija/Kalawija terminology. About pamor Prabu Hayam Wuruk, well, I haven't heard or read about it either. In fact, it is the first time I encounter the 'pamor hayam wuruk' terminology. As you have access to royal collections, I suggest you to learn from those collections. Just watch, remember the 'character' and find the keris which match it. I believe you live in Surakarta, so could joint the local keris devotee association, Pasupati. I heard there is a keris exhibition on Pagelaran Keraton Surakarta, 26 August - 9 September. You may take a look then. Just my curiosity, as your keris mounted in Jogjakarta's Gayaman sheath/warangka, it is appropiate to wear it on Surakarta Court's ceremonies ? Did someone had changed the Warangka ? I expect for Surakartas style warangka/sheath/mounting for Mangkunegara/Surakarta royal families heirlooms, as Jogjakarta royal families never had a Surakarta sheath, for obvious reason. I do apologize for my unpoliteness. Best Regards, Boedhi Adhitya

26th August 2006, 05:27 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Thanks for you imput Boedhi. I have also had a problem finding this dapur in any book on keris. I think i understand your meaning, but just to be clear could you possible define the term "Palawija/Kalawija" for us? Thanks. I would also think that for ceremonial dress Triadi would want the ladrang (formal) form of sheath as opposed to the gayaman form, yes?

28th August 2006, 05:42 AM	#9
KRMH Triadi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indonesia Posts: 7	Hi Boedhi I know my sheath is Jogja's but since that I am a new member of the court, so I have not received any suggestion yet about my attire during the ceremony. I intend to figure out it by myself hehehe..., then maybe I should change the sheath to Solo's one. I also have that information about the exhibition, but I live in Jakarta since my work is in Jakarta. I am looking for a good "red wood" somebody's told me, so I can dress my keris with it since now I am an immediate family to the king. Thank you very much for the information, I gain a lot from all of you... Best regards

29th August 2006, 01:21 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	My warmest greetings, Kanjeng Triadi. You may live in Jakarta, but as a member of the Surakarta Court , you have access to the personal advice of a number of people who are very learned in keris knowledge, and in the correct way in which to conduct ones self at court. I most humbly suggest that at your earliest opportunity you seek out a senior member of the court and request his guidance. You are now faced with responsibilities that go far beyond those raised by your initial enquiry in this Forum, and it would seem to me that you do need assistance in order to acquit yourself honourably in your new environment. At certain times in our lives we all need a mentor, perhaps a little quiet reflection may indicate to you that you have reached a time in your life when you need to seek this mentor.

29th August 2006, 07:50 AM	#11
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Hi David, According to the Javanese 'traditional consensus', a keris which had luk more than 13 or had an 'odd shape' could be classified in general term as 'Palawija/Kalawija', while it may has it's own specific dhapur such as Kala Bendhu (luk-29). I prefer, and believe, the correct term should be 'Palawija', the term came from agricultural language which means the crops other than 'main crops' such as peanuts or cassava, other than rice, which usually planted in ricefield after the rice had been harvested. It is interval crops between two rice's planting season. Thus, dhapur Palawijas are dhapurs other than 'main dhapurs'. It is believed to be reserved for those who have 'unusual purpose' or 'extraordinary characteristic' such as an artist. It is not necessarily good nor bad, it is just 'unusual'. When assessing such kerises, I suggest we assess the authenticity and workmanship first, while the 'uniqueness' come last. Please do not extend this 'consensus' to other cultures, as they may had other standards. In fact, a keris with luk more than 13 quite often in Bali's blades. Regarding Kanjeng Triadi's, I couldn't gave any comment as I had not handle it personally. If we encounter this kind of keris, authenticy should always came as the first issue. But since Kanjeng Triadi inherited this, I believe authenticity is not an issue for he himself. About the sheath, yes, I agree with you David, Ladrang (or Branggah for Jogjakarta's similar style) would be the 'all-seasons' keris sheath, hard to be wrong when you wear it. It is OK to wear the ladrang in informal situation, it is just you have to be very careful not to chip the tip of it (which may cost you a lot of tears ). Gayaman, the more 'casual' and robust sheath, may allow you to became active/work. The Jogjakarta's court abdi dalem usually wear Gayaman on their daily attendance for this reason. (Some may wear Branggah also, and OK). Kanjeng Triadi, I absolutely agree with Alan's suggestion. Just an addition, as you live in Jakarta, you probably may contact 'Panji Nusantara', the Jakarta-based keris devotee association ( panjinusantara@yahoo.com ) or Damartaji. Please use your senses, never buy stories and be very careful if it start to involve money. Not everyone honest. And neither do I What kind of 'red wood' do you mean? Did you mean 'red-lacquered pendok' instead ? IMHO, traditionally, there would be only 3 kinds of wood prefered : Sandalwood, Timoho, and Trembalo. In Surakarta sheath, I would love to have a sandalwood gandar iras sheath. I seen several good-cut,newly made sandalwood and ivory ladrangs (both are not gandar iras, especially the ivory, off course) last June in Kompas exhibiton last June. You may go after them, if you wish. best regards, boedhi adhitya

7th September 2006, 01:40 AM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Thank you for your advice in respect of the situation in the Ngayogyakerta keraton, Pak Bram. Yes, admittedly, my knowledge is limited to the Surakarta situation, and this is not first hand knowledge but what I have been told by abdi dalem during the last 20 years or so.