were some keris used for assassination

fenlander · 19th June 2007, 05:31 PM

Wikipedia says some Keris were made only for assassination. Does this just mean that different rituals chants and spells etc were used during the forging.
Or was there a different physical design to the knife that made it more efficient for this purpose. If so are there any references or pictures of a keris or kris used and forged specifically for assassination ?

I searched on the forum and could not find anything. Is Wikipedia correct ?
I'd like to see a keris assassination dagger. Do they really exist ? For example a keris made for a farmer would be different to a keris for a soldier right ? Is this just magical differences or are there real physical differences ?

A ninja asked me to ask this question

Rick · 19th June 2007, 07:14 PM

I'm not very comfortable discussing the keris in this matter Fenlander but here's my take on the subject none of these statements are intended to be absolutes, simply one person's opinion.

The keris is a 'bent elbow' thrusting weapon made to penetrate the soft parts of the body. Some dapurs are better suited for this particular task than others. A Bugis sepokal for instance is a very efficient form for killing.

In my view asassination is an act that generates negative Karma; if a keris were to be made with prayers and rituals to enhance its killing power I for one would not like to own or be in the presence of such an object.
I believe that Ken Arok from Javanese history or myth comissioned such a keris much to his regret.

It is (when used to kill) primarily a stealth weapon; not something one brandishes about and duels with unless of course the intended victim escapes the initial strike and is likewise armed. Also in war the keris is seen as a weapon of last resort.

The Bali keris due to its larger size may possibly be viewed in a different light than the keris of Jawa and other places in the archipelago.

Any keris could be used to asassinate as could any other edged weapon in the Indonesian arsenal; for instance a badek is smaller and more easy to conceal and as we know 2.5 inches penetration to the trunk is all it takes to inflict a fatal wound.

Ninjas ...

PenangsangII · 20th June 2007, 06:06 AM

In Javanese warrior culture, keris may be the last resort weapon, but for a Bugis warrior, keris, especially the sepokal form, is a side arm, their last resort weapon & usually added with talismanic properties, is the badek. Like Rick had said, Bugis sepokal blade is capable to function as a killing weapon.

There were of course some exceptions in the Javanese keris culture whereby keris was used by the aristocrat as the primary weapon even during war. The Demak civil war between Sultan Hadiwijaya and Adipati Jipang Panolan is one classic example.

In the olden days, a Bugis warrior usually carry at least 3 weapons - the sundang, keris and a secret weapon (usually badek). He would use his keris when his sundang or pedang was lost or dispossessed, and only use his badek as his last resort.

Hope this info helps.

fenlander · 20th June 2007, 03:17 PM

yes thank you to both of you for the information. I will so some research on this info.

19th June 2007, 05:31 PM	#1
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	were some keris used for assassination Wikipedia says some Keris were made only for assassination. Does this just mean that different rituals chants and spells etc were used during the forging. Or was there a different physical design to the knife that made it more efficient for this purpose. If so are there any references or pictures of a keris or kris used and forged specifically for assassination ? I searched on the forum and could not find anything. Is Wikipedia correct ? I'd like to see a keris assassination dagger. Do they really exist ? For example a keris made for a farmer would be different to a keris for a soldier right ? Is this just magical differences or are there real physical differences ? A ninja asked me to ask this question

19th June 2007, 07:14 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	One Opinion I'm not very comfortable discussing the keris in this matter Fenlander but here's my take on the subject none of these statements are intended to be absolutes, simply one person's opinion. The keris is a 'bent elbow' thrusting weapon made to penetrate the soft parts of the body. Some dapurs are better suited for this particular task than others. A Bugis sepokal for instance is a very efficient form for killing. In my view asassination is an act that generates negative Karma; if a keris were to be made with prayers and rituals to enhance its killing power I for one would not like to own or be in the presence of such an object. I believe that Ken Arok from Javanese history or myth comissioned such a keris much to his regret. It is (when used to kill) primarily a stealth weapon; not something one brandishes about and duels with unless of course the intended victim escapes the initial strike and is likewise armed. Also in war the keris is seen as a weapon of last resort. The Bali keris due to its larger size may possibly be viewed in a different light than the keris of Jawa and other places in the archipelago. Any keris could be used to asassinate as could any other edged weapon in the Indonesian arsenal; for instance a badek is smaller and more easy to conceal and as we know 2.5 inches penetration to the trunk is all it takes to inflict a fatal wound. Ninjas ...

20th June 2007, 06:06 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	last resort weapon In Javanese warrior culture, keris may be the last resort weapon, but for a Bugis warrior, keris, especially the sepokal form, is a side arm, their last resort weapon & usually added with talismanic properties, is the badek. Like Rick had said, Bugis sepokal blade is capable to function as a killing weapon. There were of course some exceptions in the Javanese keris culture whereby keris was used by the aristocrat as the primary weapon even during war. The Demak civil war between Sultan Hadiwijaya and Adipati Jipang Panolan is one classic example. In the olden days, a Bugis warrior usually carry at least 3 weapons - the sundang, keris and a secret weapon (usually badek). He would use his keris when his sundang or pedang was lost or dispossessed, and only use his badek as his last resort. Hope this info helps.

20th June 2007, 03:17 PM	#4
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	thanks yes thank you to both of you for the information. I will so some research on this info.