Is gold or suasa 'better'?

Loedjoe · 10th February 2012, 04:08 PM

As I am rather new to the Forum, I am not sure whether this should be a new thread, or attached to one of the existing ones where the rival merits of gold or suasa are discussed or mentioned. I hope these early 18th-century views may be of interest. I have included the original Dutch, as my translating skills are not very good.

Rumphius (Georgius Everhardus). D'Amboinsche Rariteitkamer, behelzende eene beschryvinge van allerhande ... schaalvisschen ... krabben, kreeften ... horntjes en schulpen, ... mineralen, gesteenten, en soorten van aarde, die in d'Amboinsche, en zommige omleggende Eilanden gevonden worden (F. Halma, Amsterdam, 1705). Book III, ch. I-III (pp. 197-201), on gold and silver. Pp. 198, gold keris hilts made from gold sheet over resin core; 203, the Malays, who cover the sheaths and the lower part of the hilts of their keris with sheets [of suasa] ... the belief that he who wears this metal shall be free of all sorts of bad luck ...Therefore the Malays and Makassarese like to use suasa for keris and their weapons, for luck in war; ch. IV (pp. 202-4) on the making of suasa, and its various mixtures and colours; 204, the Javanese can produce suasa in thin sheets, and use it to mount their keris sheaths, and it can also be soldered. The Javanese esteem suasa more highly than gold, and their emperor, the Sussuhunam, wears it more than gold.

#Pp. 198, 'De goude krishegten moet men zoodaanig aanemen, dat ze maar een goude blik boven op hebben, en het overige van binnen is opgevult met eenig hers ...'; p. 203, on suasa '... de Maleijers, dewelke ... blikken om hunne krissen aan de scheede en aan 't onderste van 't hegt daar mede te bekleeden ... ... het waangeloof doet 'er by, dat de drager van dit metaal van veelderlei ongelukken zal bevrydt zyn, en, zoo hem iets geraakt of eenige siekte overkomt, de ring zal aan de hand bersten. Daarom draagen de Maleijers en Makkassaren 't zelve zoo geern aan hunne krissen, en aan hunne wapenen, houdende zich daar door in den oorlog gelukkig ...'; p. 204, (the Javanese) ' ... zy konnen 't zoo dun krygen als blik, waar mede men de kris-scheeden beslaat, en het laat zich ook soldeeren: Dit Suassa is by de Javanen in grooter waarde dan enkel gout, en hunne Keizer de Sussuhunam draagt het meer dan 't gout ...';

Rick · 10th February 2012, 05:21 PM

This is interesting because most of the Suassa that I see is on Moro weapons rather than Javan .

Maybe I am mistaking it for gold ....

Rick

Jean · 10th February 2012, 06:00 PM

In the mid-1990's in Jakarta I was proposed an old Solonese (kraton?) kris with a luk blade supposedly made from suasa and at a reasonable price (gold was cheap at that time). Unfortunately I did not buy it because my wife did not like it but I still regret it a bit although with time I tend to believe that the alloy was rather gongso with some gold but with a lower gold content than in suasa.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 10th February 2012, 10:18 PM

Interesting question.

If we say "better", my immediate question is "better in what way"?

What we know is that gold is most certainly the very best and most highly regarded material to adorn a blade, and it is the material of choice to calm the disturbing or evil influences that may inhabit a blade.

If suasa is preferred over gold as a material for dress purposes, my own feeling would be that those who say or indicate they prefer it are making a virtue of necessity.

In the culture of Jawa , gold holds a place above all else as a material of honour. Historically rulers used to give gold in huge quantities to buy support.

Within Javanese society gold has historically been used as the measure of all value:- a debt of currency will be expressed as a weight of gold, and you repay the gold weight extressed as currency when you repay the debt. This has been the case for a very long time.

Gold is firmly fixed in the Javanese mind as the only thing of true worth --- even my own daughter-in-law will not wear any jewellery unless it is gold. I know people whom I consider to be relatively poor who will save every spare rupiah until they have sufficient to buy some gold, and along the way, they will refuse to wear costume jewellery, because if they can't wear gold, they will wear nothing.

If Javanese royalty preferred suasa to gold, I feel that perhaps a few stories may have been invented to justify that preference.

VANDOO · 12th February 2012, 08:32 PM

ITS THE SAME IN MANY COUNTRYS PURE GOLD IS ALL THAT IS CONSIDERED ( GOLD) AND OFTEN MAKES UP A WOMANS DOWERY ALL IN THE FORM OF JEWELRY. AMERICA IS ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRYS WHERE 14 CARRAT OR 18 C. IS CONSIDERED GOLD. FOR TRUE VALUE "GOOD AS GOLD " SAYS IT ALL.
SUASA IS MORE DURABLE THAN GOLD AND WOULD DEFORM AND WEAR LESS THAN PURE GOLD SO WOULD BE MUCH MORE PRACTICAL FOR USE ON WEAPONS OR ITEMS EXPOSED TO WEAR. NO DOUBT THE USE OF PURE GOLD ON WEAPONS IN SOME COUNTRIES MAY HAVE BEEN RESTRICTED TO THE ROYAL FAMILYS. IN SUCH CASES THE USE OF SUASA MAY HAVE BEEN PERMITTED TO SHOW WEALTH AND RANK AND TO LOOK GOOD.

FOR THOSE WHO COULD AFFORD IT PURE GOLD HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST DESIRABLE. PERHAPS SOMEONE LONG AGO WHO EITHER DID NOT HAVE THE STATUS OR WEALTH TO POSESS GOLD STARTED THE RUMOR THAT SUASA WAS BETTER BECAUSE THATS THE BEST HE COULD DO.

I AM CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOUR AVATAR IS LOEDJOE PERHAPS A POST ON IT WOULD BE OF INTREST TO OTHERS AS WELL AS MYSELF.

Loedjoe · 13th February 2012, 10:48 PM

Vandoo - I have posted a response to your query about the item shown in my Avatar, on the Ethnographic Weapons Forum, under 'parang betino'.

Best wishes, Loedjoe

10th February 2012, 04:08 PM	#1
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Is gold or suasa 'better'? As I am rather new to the Forum, I am not sure whether this should be a new thread, or attached to one of the existing ones where the rival merits of gold or suasa are discussed or mentioned. I hope these early 18th-century views may be of interest. I have included the original Dutch, as my translating skills are not very good. Rumphius (Georgius Everhardus). D'Amboinsche Rariteitkamer, behelzende eene beschryvinge van allerhande ... schaalvisschen ... krabben, kreeften ... horntjes en schulpen, ... mineralen, gesteenten, en soorten van aarde, die in d'Amboinsche, en zommige omleggende Eilanden gevonden worden (F. Halma, Amsterdam, 1705). Book III, ch. I-III (pp. 197-201), on gold and silver. Pp. 198, gold keris hilts made from gold sheet over resin core; 203, the Malays, who cover the sheaths and the lower part of the hilts of their keris with sheets [of suasa] ... the belief that he who wears this metal shall be free of all sorts of bad luck ...Therefore the Malays and Makassarese like to use suasa for keris and their weapons, for luck in war; ch. IV (pp. 202-4) on the making of suasa, and its various mixtures and colours; 204, the Javanese can produce suasa in thin sheets, and use it to mount their keris sheaths, and it can also be soldered. The Javanese esteem suasa more highly than gold, and their emperor, the Sussuhunam, wears it more than gold. #Pp. 198, 'De goude krishegten moet men zoodaanig aanemen, dat ze maar een goude blik boven op hebben, en het overige van binnen is opgevult met eenig hers ...'; p. 203, on suasa '... de Maleijers, dewelke ... blikken om hunne krissen aan de scheede en aan 't onderste van 't hegt daar mede te bekleeden ... ... het waangeloof doet 'er by, dat de drager van dit metaal van veelderlei ongelukken zal bevrydt zyn, en, zoo hem iets geraakt of eenige siekte overkomt, de ring zal aan de hand bersten. Daarom draagen de Maleijers en Makkassaren 't zelve zoo geern aan hunne krissen, en aan hunne wapenen, houdende zich daar door in den oorlog gelukkig ...'; p. 204, (the Javanese) ' ... zy konnen 't zoo dun krygen als blik, waar mede men de kris-scheeden beslaat, en het laat zich ook soldeeren: Dit Suassa is by de Javanen in grooter waarde dan enkel gout, en hunne Keizer de Sussuhunam draagt het meer dan 't gout ...';

10th February 2012, 05:21 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	This is interesting because most of the Suassa that I see is on Moro weapons rather than Javan . Maybe I am mistaking it for gold .... Rick

10th February 2012, 06:00 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	In the mid-1990's in Jakarta I was proposed an old Solonese (kraton?) kris with a luk blade supposedly made from suasa and at a reasonable price (gold was cheap at that time). Unfortunately I did not buy it because my wife did not like it but I still regret it a bit although with time I tend to believe that the alloy was rather gongso with some gold but with a lower gold content than in suasa. Regards

10th February 2012, 10:18 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Interesting question. If we say "better", my immediate question is "better in what way"? What we know is that gold is most certainly the very best and most highly regarded material to adorn a blade, and it is the material of choice to calm the disturbing or evil influences that may inhabit a blade. If suasa is preferred over gold as a material for dress purposes, my own feeling would be that those who say or indicate they prefer it are making a virtue of necessity. In the culture of Jawa , gold holds a place above all else as a material of honour. Historically rulers used to give gold in huge quantities to buy support. Within Javanese society gold has historically been used as the measure of all value:- a debt of currency will be expressed as a weight of gold, and you repay the gold weight extressed as currency when you repay the debt. This has been the case for a very long time. Gold is firmly fixed in the Javanese mind as the only thing of true worth --- even my own daughter-in-law will not wear any jewellery unless it is gold. I know people whom I consider to be relatively poor who will save every spare rupiah until they have sufficient to buy some gold, and along the way, they will refuse to wear costume jewellery, because if they can't wear gold, they will wear nothing. If Javanese royalty preferred suasa to gold, I feel that perhaps a few stories may have been invented to justify that preference.

12th February 2012, 08:32 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ITS THE SAME IN MANY COUNTRYS PURE GOLD IS ALL THAT IS CONSIDERED ( GOLD) AND OFTEN MAKES UP A WOMANS DOWERY ALL IN THE FORM OF JEWELRY. AMERICA IS ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRYS WHERE 14 CARRAT OR 18 C. IS CONSIDERED GOLD. FOR TRUE VALUE "GOOD AS GOLD " SAYS IT ALL. SUASA IS MORE DURABLE THAN GOLD AND WOULD DEFORM AND WEAR LESS THAN PURE GOLD SO WOULD BE MUCH MORE PRACTICAL FOR USE ON WEAPONS OR ITEMS EXPOSED TO WEAR. NO DOUBT THE USE OF PURE GOLD ON WEAPONS IN SOME COUNTRIES MAY HAVE BEEN RESTRICTED TO THE ROYAL FAMILYS. IN SUCH CASES THE USE OF SUASA MAY HAVE BEEN PERMITTED TO SHOW WEALTH AND RANK AND TO LOOK GOOD. FOR THOSE WHO COULD AFFORD IT PURE GOLD HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST DESIRABLE. PERHAPS SOMEONE LONG AGO WHO EITHER DID NOT HAVE THE STATUS OR WEALTH TO POSESS GOLD STARTED THE RUMOR THAT SUASA WAS BETTER BECAUSE THATS THE BEST HE COULD DO. I AM CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOUR AVATAR IS LOEDJOE PERHAPS A POST ON IT WOULD BE OF INTREST TO OTHERS AS WELL AS MYSELF.

13th February 2012, 10:48 PM	#6
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Vandoo - I have posted a response to your query about the item shown in my Avatar, on the Ethnographic Weapons Forum, under 'parang betino'. Best wishes, Loedjoe