Fever

Yannis · 23rd January 2006, 10:08 AM

Here it is a category of ethnic blades we have never discuss, as far as I remember, in this forum. Sometimes we critisice buyers that pay lot of money because of “nationalistic” motivation. What do you think about this price? What other kind of poor made ethnographic knife of 19th century could beat it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7737532094

nechesh · 23rd January 2006, 02:14 PM

Well Yannis, i think that there is a lot more you need to take into account when looking at authentic 19thC Native American weapons. First of all, the collector is probably just as interested (if not more) in the native bead work and the belt as they are in the knike. The blade, afterall, is a trade blade, not actually crafted by a Native American. Weapons like these, especially so intact, are rather rare items. Remember, the U.S. was on a campaign of genocide against these people in the second half of the 19thC, determined not only to eliminate the "Indian threat", but their culture as well. The ones that weren't killed were to be "civilized", christainized, their cultural heritage and languages were forbidden, to be left behind. So to those who collect and study these things i am sure this knife is considered quite valuable. It's not always a matter of the quality of the steel.

VANDOO · 23rd January 2006, 05:15 PM

I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE, THE TRIBE ALSO HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE WORTH OF NATIVE AMERICAN ARTEFACTS. SOME TRIBES ARE MORE DESIRABLE TO A LARGER NUMBER OF COLLECTORS DUE TO THEIR HISTORY AND REPUTATION. THE CHEYENNE WERE SAID TO BE THE BEST HORSEMEN AND GREAT WARRIORS AND THERE IS NOT AS MUCH MATERIAL AVAILABLE TO COLLECT AS SOME OF OTHER TRIBES. SOME TRIBES WERE NOTED FOR THEIR CRAFTSMANSHIP IN OTHER THINGS BEADWORK, LEATHER TANNING, WOOD CARVING, STONE POINTS,POTTERY, ECT. THERE ARE MANY TRIBES WHO ARE OVERLOOKED AS THEY WERE NEVER FAMOUS IN POST EUROPEAN HISTORY OR WERE WIPED OUT EARLY OR NEVER HAD MUCH AND LIVED A SIMPLE LIFE MUCH LIKE MANY OF THE NOMADIC TRIBES IN SOUTH AMERICA AND DIDN'T LEAVE MANY ARTEFACTS FOR STUDY.

ITS NOT ABOUT THE KNIFE ITS ABOUT THE CRAFTSMANSHIP ,RARITY, TRIBE AND AGE IN THE SHEITH OF THE PLAINS TRIBES. I HAVE SOME KNIVES FROM THOSE DAYS BUT AS THEY HAVE NO SCABBARDS OR KNOWN TRIBAL CONNECTION THEY ARE JUST ANOTHER BUCTHER KNIFE WITH LITTLE WORTH.
THE KNIVES FROM THE NORTH WEST COAST TRIBES ARE ANOTHER THING THE WOOD CARVING ON HANDLES AND TRIBE AND AGE DETERMINE THE DESIRABILITY AND SOME OF THE BLADES ARE MADE ESPECIALLY FOR THEM AND ARE UNUSUAL. NATIVE AMERICAN ITEMS DO BRING HIGH PRICES BOTH FROM HISTORIC TIMES AND PREHISTORIC TIMES AS SOME OF THE OLD STONE POINTS SELL VERY HIGH.

Andrew · 23rd January 2006, 05:26 PM

I note the knife wasn't even mentioned in the auction.

Tim Simmons · 23rd January 2006, 05:57 PM

If only I had the money

maybe I would like a slightly better knife. Tim

VANDOO · 23rd January 2006, 11:30 PM

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN KNIVES ARE MOSTLY JUST REGULAR KNIVES AQUIRED FROM TRADERS AND WERE THE SAME AS THE ONES USED BY THE SETTLERS. THE TRIBES THOUGHT OF THEM AS VERY VALUEABLE AND A THING TO BE PROUD OF WHILE THE SETTLERS JUST THOUGHT OF THEM AS A TOOL AND TOOK THEM FOR GRANTED.
NATIVE AMERICANS DECORATED THEIRS UP WHILE SETTLERS JUST CARRIED THEM IN A SIMPLE SHEITH. WARRIORS WERE NO BETTER ARMED THAN THE FRONTIER LADYS KITCHEN WHEN IT CAME TO KNIVES

MOST BEAD WORK WAS DONE BY THE WOMEN FOR THE MEN, THEY LIKED TO SHOW OFF THEIR SKILLS AND MAKE THEIR WARRIOR LOOK GOOD.

23rd January 2006, 10:08 AM	#1
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Fever Here it is a category of ethnic blades we have never discuss, as far as I remember, in this forum. Sometimes we critisice buyers that pay lot of money because of “nationalistic” motivation. What do you think about this price? What other kind of poor made ethnographic knife of 19th century could beat it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7737532094

23rd January 2006, 02:14 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well Yannis, i think that there is a lot more you need to take into account when looking at authentic 19thC Native American weapons. First of all, the collector is probably just as interested (if not more) in the native bead work and the belt as they are in the knike. The blade, afterall, is a trade blade, not actually crafted by a Native American. Weapons like these, especially so intact, are rather rare items. Remember, the U.S. was on a campaign of genocide against these people in the second half of the 19thC, determined not only to eliminate the "Indian threat", but their culture as well. The ones that weren't killed were to be "civilized", christainized, their cultural heritage and languages were forbidden, to be left behind. So to those who collect and study these things i am sure this knife is considered quite valuable. It's not always a matter of the quality of the steel.

23rd January 2006, 05:15 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE, THE TRIBE ALSO HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE WORTH OF NATIVE AMERICAN ARTEFACTS. SOME TRIBES ARE MORE DESIRABLE TO A LARGER NUMBER OF COLLECTORS DUE TO THEIR HISTORY AND REPUTATION. THE CHEYENNE WERE SAID TO BE THE BEST HORSEMEN AND GREAT WARRIORS AND THERE IS NOT AS MUCH MATERIAL AVAILABLE TO COLLECT AS SOME OF OTHER TRIBES. SOME TRIBES WERE NOTED FOR THEIR CRAFTSMANSHIP IN OTHER THINGS BEADWORK, LEATHER TANNING, WOOD CARVING, STONE POINTS,POTTERY, ECT. THERE ARE MANY TRIBES WHO ARE OVERLOOKED AS THEY WERE NEVER FAMOUS IN POST EUROPEAN HISTORY OR WERE WIPED OUT EARLY OR NEVER HAD MUCH AND LIVED A SIMPLE LIFE MUCH LIKE MANY OF THE NOMADIC TRIBES IN SOUTH AMERICA AND DIDN'T LEAVE MANY ARTEFACTS FOR STUDY. ITS NOT ABOUT THE KNIFE ITS ABOUT THE CRAFTSMANSHIP ,RARITY, TRIBE AND AGE IN THE SHEITH OF THE PLAINS TRIBES. I HAVE SOME KNIVES FROM THOSE DAYS BUT AS THEY HAVE NO SCABBARDS OR KNOWN TRIBAL CONNECTION THEY ARE JUST ANOTHER BUCTHER KNIFE WITH LITTLE WORTH. THE KNIVES FROM THE NORTH WEST COAST TRIBES ARE ANOTHER THING THE WOOD CARVING ON HANDLES AND TRIBE AND AGE DETERMINE THE DESIRABILITY AND SOME OF THE BLADES ARE MADE ESPECIALLY FOR THEM AND ARE UNUSUAL. NATIVE AMERICAN ITEMS DO BRING HIGH PRICES BOTH FROM HISTORIC TIMES AND PREHISTORIC TIMES AS SOME OF THE OLD STONE POINTS SELL VERY HIGH.

23rd January 2006, 05:26 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I note the knife wasn't even mentioned in the auction.

23rd January 2006, 05:57 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	If only I had the money maybe I would like a slightly better knife. Tim

23rd January 2006, 11:30 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN KNIVES ARE MOSTLY JUST REGULAR KNIVES AQUIRED FROM TRADERS AND WERE THE SAME AS THE ONES USED BY THE SETTLERS. THE TRIBES THOUGHT OF THEM AS VERY VALUEABLE AND A THING TO BE PROUD OF WHILE THE SETTLERS JUST THOUGHT OF THEM AS A TOOL AND TOOK THEM FOR GRANTED. NATIVE AMERICANS DECORATED THEIRS UP WHILE SETTLERS JUST CARRIED THEM IN A SIMPLE SHEITH. WARRIORS WERE NO BETTER ARMED THAN THE FRONTIER LADYS KITCHEN WHEN IT CAME TO KNIVES MOST BEAD WORK WAS DONE BY THE WOMEN FOR THE MEN, THEY LIKED TO SHOW OFF THEIR SKILLS AND MAKE THEIR WARRIOR LOOK GOOD.